Advice from three of our guy friends. This week they answer the following: “What do you do if your girlfriend, whom you love very much, doesn’t understand why you like and watch porn occasionally: she’s intellectually and viscerally opposed to it, thinks it is a horrible industry that exploits people and perpetuates sexism and misogyny, and has suggested to me that it might be a deal breaker?”
Straight Single Guy (L.A. Chris): Well she has a point, but she doesn’t fully understand men if she makes that a deal breaker. (Good luck finding a man who doesn’t like porn; it’s hard enough to find one that doesn’t like sports!) Some porn is perfectly healthy, and if a guy can’t explain that convincingly, or is too afraid to put his foot down, then he should throw in the towel and throw away his stash. That’s not to say he can’t dabble now and again, but he should stay away from the Brazilian fart porn and Japanese girls exchanging bodily fluids just in case.
Straight Married Guy (Fred): Keep it a secret from her! Okay, you could try to explain that it has nothing to do with her, that she’s not in any competition with it, that it’s a normal and unavoidable part of being a guy, and that she’ll never find any guy who doesn’t look at porn from time to time… or you could just make it a private thing. Don’t talk about it and definitely don’t let her see any signs of it. Ignorance is bliss. If you’re feeling lucky, you could also point out her relationship with shoes (or women’s magazines, or whatever) and say that you’re viscerally opposed to it, think it is a horrible industry that exploits people and perpetuates sexism and misogyny, and suggest that it might be a deal breaker.
Gay Commited Guy (Terence): First thing you do is hide. Hide everything. If you’ve got magazines, burn ‘em cause no one uses them anymore anyway. Then remember to clear your cache and history after you get your rocks off online. Don’t get rid of every site you visited that day, just the porn sites. She’ll never know… I say this because you should never change something about yourself for someone else. It’s like quitting smoking for someone else; it rings empty and isn’t terribly successful. Your question doesn’t even hint that you have a problem with porn. So if that’s the case, then I think your only option is to hide your porn and slowly, over the years, bring her to understand that your porn is not her problem.
Our “wise guys” are a rotating group of contributors, some of whom wish to remain anonymous and some of whom like the attention. This week they’re all a little shy.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
No don’t hide it, worst thing you can do. It is a little hard for me to understand as I’m a woman who likes porn. The little porn my husband looks at he denies (he seems to be shy) despite the fact I’d love to share it with him. Anyhow I’m no fool, despite browser clearing activities there are always ways I can find it. I look so I can then see what he’s into. Not to have a go at him.
The problem here is lying, I believe annoys and hurts all women the most. I would say lying trumps looking at porn too.
Perhaps compromise, find porn that’s more female friendly, something that has ethics your girlfriend cannot oppose.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
don’t hide it. there is female empowerment porn. I swear i’ve seen it somewhere. However lying will just piss a woman off. tell her she can still be a feminist and enjoy porn. try getting her to read some erotica and finding similar porn that puts the woman in charge. that might help. good luck
January 8th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Don’t lie to her!
It’s ok to delete your browser history if you share one computer. You have the right to have your privacy!! But if she asks you please be honest. If she can’t accept you the way you are she’s not the right person for you anyway.
January 8th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
I completely agree. If you lie about porn, and she finds out, it will only help prove her case, and convince her even further that porn is the devil. Going behind her back is not the solution. The advice given by the ladies above me is wonderful. Start with reading some erotica together that you’ve carefully selected to appeal to the sorts of things that you know she likes.. If you’re feeling confidant, try writing some of your own, about the two of you, for her.
January 8th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Lots of porn is awful. I just finished a paper last semester about pornography. I really can’t blame her considering most of what she probably knows about porn. Luckily, the focus of this paper was feminist pornography! Seriously check it out. Em and Lo have done a lot on them. I think Erica Lust is probably seriously the best. Check out her site and also a few of the other sites she recommends. As long as you explain that for you, porn can just sort of be a sex toy, and you negotiate by eschewing the awful mainstream porn that is packed full of misogynistic depictions of women, you two should reach a compromise in no time!
January 8th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
This is either awful or idiotic. Yes, an un-Godly amount of porn has entered the world that would sicken an albino rat, but there certainly is some that does no more than say “sex is nice.” You can always just get vintage stuff from my youth and view that…the mechanics haven’t changed and you get women who look like women and not 12-year olds. If the woman he loves won’t cut him some slack that way, he has a massively dysfunctional relationship. He may as well–reluctantly, which is why I said it could be awful–cut his losses now and leave. But for heavens sake, don’t lie about it. No good thing happens if you lie about it.
January 8th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
LOVE the Dharma Initiative porn, HATE the advice. Like other commenters have suggested, lying about it only perpetuates the idea that porn is evil and dirty and that men lie about their sexual activities and desires (oh, and that women don’t have masturbatory fantasies, too). When I first moved in with my now-husband, I was initially threatened by porn consumption, thinking all the usual thoughts that it meant I wasn’t attractive or sexual enough. It took a lot openness, reassurance, and, frankly, exposure to come to understand that wanking visuals are not a threat, and that checking out other people was going to be something we BOTH do, and that’s okay. Now, to get a copy of “Kate Gone Wild.”
January 8th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Now I don’t care for porn at all (of any kind), but I disagree with a lot of the comments. Why should he try to tailor his porn consumption to only porn that his girlfriend might not find as offensive? Should we only have fantasies that our partners find acceptable? Of course not. You share/act on the ones your partner likes, and the ones they don’t, you keep in the privacy of your own head. Keeping something private is not the same as lying, and our partners have no right to dictate our fantasies. That’s just what porn is – fantasy.
I also think that any woman who tells her man to give up porn or it’s a dealbreaker is really telling him “keep watching porn, but keep it well out of sight, because I don’t want to know about it.” That is, unless she’s completely naive, because I think most of us have figured out that most men watch porn, whether we know about it or not.
January 8th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
A note to L.A. Chris and Fred: Please remember that there *are* some guys among us who aren’t into porn. At least, I’ve never seen any that I could handle for more than 10 seconds. The best of it, I found to be kind of boring (blank expressions, dead eyes and uncomfortable posing) and the worst I’ve ever seen was kind of disturbing and left me feeling sad. I find written forms to have much more appeal. Particularly erotica written by women. I make no pretense of moral superiority because of this; it just seems to be an artifact of the way I’m wired.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:46 am
I remember reading articles about feminist porn back when this site’s advice column was on DailyBedpost – couldn’t you do some background check work on your porn and stick to the parts of the industry that aren’t exploitative? Go search for those old articles on DailyBedpost and use them to help convince your girlfriend that there is ethically sound smut out there.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Fred, one of the posters here. Sheesh, who said anything about lying? I just said keep it private. There is a difference. My point: do not keep a 6-foot poster of Angelina Jolie in the living room you share with your girlfriend or wife. Keep a folded 3×5 card of Angelina Jolie in your wallet. (this is a metaphor). If asked about it do not lie, yes, you have a picture of Angenina Jolie. Also, all porn is not equal. Some porn is demeaning to the women in it. Some is not. Porn as a catch-all term is problematic. Due to the number commenters that mistook what I said, I’m going to repeat myself: Do not lie about porn, just keep it out of her face!
January 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Thanks rhapsody! And yeah, we have written about feminist porn in the past. Here are a few links from DailyBedpost, though we’re not sure how much longer the site will be live for. We promise to write more on this site soon about how to hunt down ethical porn. (In the meantime, the site http://www.hotmoviesforher.com, in our blog roll, is a great resource.)
http://dailybedpost.com/2008/11/a-day-in-the-life-of-aporn-lib.php
http://dailybedpost.com/2008/10/a-day-in-the-life-ofa-feminist.php
And here’s our friend Claire from Babeland chatting about porn…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInoqcV61-4
January 9th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Yeah, what Fred said.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
The question was not wether porn is good or bad.. but what to do if the girlfriend says “quit watching it or im out”!
)
Short answer .. they are not intellectually or viscerally compatible.
A good annalogy would be a couple where one is politically left and the other – right. One believes in right to choose .. the other the right to life..
One voted for Obama.. and the other .. well… DUmp that Bush man!!
January 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
First of all, there IS good porn out there for women…MINE for one thing!!! Check out: candidaroyalle.com. There are others too. Secondly, all these guys who say you can’t find a guy who doesn’t like porn? I beg to differ. I would say most of my male friends and most of my serious lovers were not that interested in it. They found it boring, infantile, and mostly a big turn-off. I’ve got something to tell you guys: NOT ALL MEN LOVE PORN! At least not the typical kind that insults women AND men! Not that I even care…I’m in the biz! And I believe everyone has the right to enjoy what they want and that porn is NOT the root of all our social ills. (I’m a founding board member of Feminists for Free Express too…FREE CHOICE!) But this notion that all men are incontrolably driven to want to watch porn. Nope. Not true. Rant over.
January 10th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Look, guys need to have some sexual activities that are private. So do women. Masturbating and fantasizing using porn or pictures or smells is natural and does not have ANYTHING to do with whether or not you’re in a committed relationship. It’s just sex. Not love. Sex. It’s normal. Now, is there some freaky ass porn out there that degrades both sexes? Sure. But most guys are not into that stuff. Porn is fantasy, pure and simple. I prefer to read racy romances with the men who say the right things and know how to seduce a woman, he prefers to view 18 year olds with tight thighs and shiny hair. So what? I maintain that a healthy relationship with your mate involves enjoying sex together and enjoying our private sexual fantasies apart, too. Gotta have something that’s just yours, you know?
January 10th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
what fred said, and what sexylibrarian said. i didn’t hear anyone condone lying.
and since when does a partner need to know everything you ever fantasize about? when my girlfriend wants to share her fantasies, that’s great, and when she doesn’t, that’s her business. porn is just a fantasizing tool, and if it’s just something i look at occasionally for a solo quickie, who really cares?
January 12th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Ditto to what Karen said, about compatibility. Your worldview allows for porn consumption, and your girlfriend’s doesn’t. It may sound silly to compromise a relationship, but this is a big deal on a few levels.
One, you like porn, and it gives you safe sexual pleasure without compromising your faithfulness to your girlfriend (yes, I am dismissive of the “porn is cheating” school of thought). She’s trying to deny you that sexual pleasure, which brings me to what I call the Dildo Paradox. If she’s going to forbid you porn, she’d better not have an actual replica of another man’s cock in her top drawer. Better if neither of you interferes with the other’s masturbatory life.
Two, people talk about porn “degrading women” as though the men who participate in it are seen as upstanding community members. Give me a break. Porn is a sleazy business for everyone involved – the starlet, the stud, the boom mike operator. Yes, even the “empowering, feminist porn”. Just because those girls are classily portrayed on screen, doesn’t mean they’re in good shape mentally or emotionally. They’re porn actresses.
Finally, this stinks of compliance testing. I’m wary of any woman who tries to tell me what to do when she’s not around. That would be a deal-breaker for ME, cause I think it’s indicative of a controlling and manipulative personality type. Is there a list of OTHER things she forbids or requires, even if they don’t really affect her in any way?
Think about it.
January 13th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
How about just stop watching porn? Really, it does nothing but degrade your marriage. It is silly to think that porn is a good tool to “enhance your sex life or marriage” – remember – the girls you are watching are someones daughter, and could be yours in the future.
It is sad to see how this industry has become so “normal” to many people. Honor your wife and stop filling your mind with this type of garbage that does nothing for you.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Half of me agrees with Craig; I’ve been in a relationship where the guy I was dating at the time watched some really bad porn (where the woman is tied up, etc…the guy beats on her a bit and makes her do unmentionable things) and wanted me to do the things he watched. Things that made me feel unappreciated. I got out of that relationship quick! Some guys’ perspective on porn is interesting, like they think all women must behave like the porn actresses in those movies; that we should do anything men tell us to do sexually. It’s pure fantasy.
Now, I myself watch porn occasionally, none of the women degradation movies, but tasteful ones. But I do not bring porn into my relationship, I reserve it for ME time. Just like my man, he isn’t a big movie watcher, but has a few forums with ‘naked women threads’ he looks at online.
Some women are threatened by their man’s porn viewing. The women think that they are not good enough in bed to satisfy them, they do not look as fit as the porn actresses do, boob comparison, and how well the porn actress can bend/move, etc. It really hurts some women’s self esteem.
But the most important thing, is that their man is loving them unconditionally, trust is in the relationship, the sex life is very much alive, and no cheating is going on. When you have these, I don’t think porn watching is a threat.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Hey Rei… great comments… However isn’t watching porn in a sense “cheating”? If one is watching porn they are fantasizing and being stimulate by someone who is not their spouse. In my book, that is cheating.
January 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Craig, in YOUR book that is cheating. So you’d do fine to be with a wife who thinks watching porn is cheating. I’m not sure what you and your partner would do if one of you accidentally had a sex dream about someone else, though. Is that cheating, too?
For me, porn isn’t cheating. My wife knows I look at the occasional picture (I actually look at still images more often than videos), and she doesn’t care. I’m not sure if she looks at images or videos of guys, but it really wouldn’t bother me, and I certainly don’t consider it cheating. It’s her fantasy life, and it’s totally different than the reality of her acting out in the real world.
So I don’t buy into the notion that porn is just garbage that does nothing for you. It can be a release. If anything, it actually lowers the chances of cheating. I’d worry more about the future faithfulness of a couple who denies the existence of fantasies and represses everything that’s not clean/pure/godly/whatever than I would worry about the future of a couple with healthy fantasy lives.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I don’t think porn should be a dealbreaker, and if a woman has a problem with it… doesn’t she watch it too? I actually watch porn with my boyfriend (especially Pirates!) and we have a lot of fun laughing at the cheesy lines and horrible acting and hey, it’s hot. Now if he can’t get off without watching porn, then you have an issue.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
So, I am actually a girl who can’t really handle the whole porn thing. First, because I know what it psychologically does to people. What you watch or listen to never really goes away. Also, because the internet has made pornography so easy to attain, many many men and women have developed pornography addictions.
I have dated a man who had a pornography/cybersex addiction and it was completely and totally devasting. Like most people who suffer an addiction, eventually the “non cheating” stuff of porn and sexual conversations over the internet led to him actually cheating on me with a woman he met over an online casual sex site. Though we no longer date, I know that it took him years to over come this addiction.
I don’t think pornography is a deal breaker, as long as a) he can masturbate to completion without the help of pornography. and b) it is very very limited. There is just a very thin line between healthy use of pornography, and pornography becoming a problem.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Also, will, Porn does NOT lower the chances of cheating. In general, at least in the studies I read recently, men who viewed porn 3 or more times a week were much more likely to cheat on their significant others. Though, the study did say that men who viewed porn one time or less per week were less likely to cheat. But could that just mean that a man who rarely views porn has more respect for the woman his with?
January 16th, 2009 at 1:59 am
No liz, that just means that he is not that sexual. And to be specific becuase if your ‘man’ dosen’t get what he wants in bed he will cheat…. So it has to be a two way street, he gets what he wants and you get what you want. Trust me.
Its the cold hard truth. Take it from being the other women who he cheats with. ME.
January 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Elizabeth,
I don’t think porn has anything to to with cheating frequency. Some guys enter relationships because they’re really into a woman, maybe even in love, and they only want to be with her. These guys are generally safe.
Other guys enter relationships because they don’t get laid much, lack sexual options and want a steady source of sex. These guys are malcontents and will cheat first chance they get, porn or no.
January 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Exactly. Sorry to hear about your ex, Elizabeth… but keeping him from porn would not have saved your relationship. If you eradicated all of the porn on the planet, he still would have gotten into trouble, ’cause that’s his (self-destructive) nature.
I would guess that the vast majority of guys (and gals) who look at porn do so with a full understanding of the fantasy nature of it. Besides–look at all of those red states with the most restrictive laws against porn, and all kinds of moral crusaders telling us how it’s evil and will ruin our marriages. Meanwhile they have the highest divorce rates in the country. And I would venture a guess that people with more restrictions and judgments in the culture surrounding them have less satisfying sex lives, too.
January 18th, 2009 at 6:37 am
It all comes down to the Individual; their preferences, how they would react to porn, and how they will cheat/not cheat. You can never group men or women into categories in whole. Its never this way or that (two way road). When you are serious about dating someone, getting to know them, see how they are with porn, and if you do not like how they handle porn, and cannot compromise anything, do not date them, they are not for you. There is always someone out there for everyone.
January 19th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Um, my guy did get what he wanted, when he wanted it in bed thank you very much. Shoot, I had a higher sex drive than he did.
My ex had a pornography addiction, that led to him acting out his fantasies. And while I realize that not all people who view pornography do not have an addiction, any more than all people who consume alcohol are alcoholics, I also know that you have to be careful, with any addictive substance or activity. And pornography viewing is one of those activities, whether men want to believe it or not.
So, no, I would not be okay with being with a man who viewed pornography often or could not get off without it.
I do not think that pornography is inherently evil or something like that. I just don’t think that it is very healthy to spend a lot of time viewing it. I just think that people on here should stop talking crap about girls who are uncomfortable with it. Do we not all have the right to have our own limits? Yes, most guys view porn. But most guys who have a healthy reaction to porn also know that they could live without it. My current boyfriend respects that. I know that every once in awhile he takes a gander at some porn. But I also know that it’s rare, and that 99 percent of the time he’d much rather be with me.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I am going to have to go with ignorance is bliss. I have come to the conclusion that I do not want to know every detail in my mans life. I love the relationship I am in, and for the most part we work as a team, but there is a point where you must acknowledge that even though you are together you are still seperate human beings. You are both going to have your own seperate likes and dislikes. So, just because you are with someone does not mean you get to have a part in ruling every facet of thier lives. In the end you might be walking along side of each other, but you are still wearing your own shoes. My guy is into porn, I find it more funny then sexually stimulating. However I have noticed that the sex I share with my partner after he has had his fill of porn is beyond incredible. He might be watching porn to stimulate himself but I get to cash in the rewards. Looking at it like that has kept him happy and sexually content, and me totally satisfied. So thank you porn, thank you very much!
June 25th, 2010 at 12:15 am
I recognize that asking this question on your internet site might be unethical but I think my girl friend is cheating on me. U know, coming in home late from work, going outside with the girls every time. Washing Off the clothes as soon as she gets home. We don’t even have sex any longer Do you guys have any points as to how I could acquire the truth?
June 25th, 2010 at 9:52 am
I went through a quasi-Second Wave feminst phase, where I really thought porn was “degrading and exploitive” towards women. (After previously enjoying it.) I had some issues at that point, but My Man still liked and enjoyed the porn occasionally.
I have since changed my ideas about porn, after doing research into the American Adult Film Industry, and realize in all but the worst situations, the women and men in the Sex Industry know what they are getting into and are not being exploited, they are making good money doing something they love. I feel differently about some foreigh porn (especially some of the Asian humilation porn, where the female modesl look about 13 years old, although they are said to be over 18, BLECH!) I now enjoy a great deal of erotica and porn and My Man and I enjoy it together and even on our own. (The stuff I like tends to be a little more hard core than the stuff we watch together. To each her own.)
The thing is, even when I wasn’t a fan of porn years ago, My Man was a grown man and I am not going to tell a grown man what he can and cannot do, unless it is dangerous or harmful to himself or our family. The stuff he watches is fairly vanilla (at least by my standards) and in like, I don’t tell him what to wear, what to eat, who he should or can hang out with, I don’t limit his activities with his buddies etc. We’re both grown adults and neither of us should be telling the other what to do in the other’s spare time. We have a romantic/equal partnership relationship, not a parent-child relationship.
IF the porn watching was an addictive behavior, meaning it is taking up hours a day, he simply cannot get sexually aroused without it, or it is taking the place of your sex life, or the amount of sex the two of you are having has reduced, then it is a problem and neeeds to be taken care of.
Occasional porn watching (what does that mean? For some it might be 15 minutes to a half hour a day, for others and hour once or twice a week, for others only very rarely.) is usually harmless and as long as it isn’t addictive and is LEGAL porn (no kiddie porn etc) or feeds unhealthy behavior, like, well, anything from picking up strangers, while you two are in a monogamous relationship to engaging in mastubation as his ONLY sexual activity, it is REALLY his business.
As for hiding it, I know when I went through my phase, he was hiding the stuff. He didn’t have a lot, but he die it more because he didn’t want to hurt my feelings more than save himself. I don’t think hiding it is the answer, if she DEMANDS he not view erotica or porn, and gives him an ultimatum, it may signify a problem that effects the entire relationship, and some counseling is in order. If his porn watching is within healthy parameters and she is still giving him ultimatums, SHE needs some help. If he is using porn additively or unhealthily, and it is taking the place of healthy sexual relations, other recreation, sleeping, eating bathing etc, then HE needs the help. Either way, it sounds like Couples Counseling is a important in this relationship.