Advice from three of our guy friends. This week a straight woman asks, “How much younger than them do you think most guys are comfortable dating before it becomes embarrassing? Or is there no limit as long as the youngster in question is legal and not a complete airhead?”
Gay Single Guy (Jay Dyckman): Yes, there is an age too young for anyone to date. But I think it happens only after you hit 35. Any dating combo of two people both under 35 (provided both are over 21…yes, 21, not 18) is probably not a big deal. No one really considers themselves that old before hitting 35.
After 35, all bets are off. If you’re over 35 and you date someone more than 10 years your junior, you will — and rightly so — be mocked (and silently envied) by your friends and enemies for such dating hubris. It will put you squarely in the “oh please” zone. And this goes for both men and women: Dating much younger than yourself connotes a power dynamic that is creepy yet totally gender non-specific. Both sexes look entirely ridiculous parading their toy around, be it male or female. But if you’re over 35, you can date anyone — of any age disparity — who is also over 35. A 65-year-old and 37-year-old? Sure, why not.
This might seem arbitrary but age designations exist for a reason. The good people of corporate America have decided that once we’re older than 35, we are no longer a desirable marketing demographic. That’s real science, people. After 35, big age differences are obviously apparent, but both parties have fully exited the nubile stage so no one really cares. You are no longer hip, cool, or capable of dating someone who had an “American Idol”-themed Bar Mitzvah. That’s not to say you shouldn’t do it. Hell, if someone of the Gen Next persuasion wants to tap your old bones, consider yourself lucky. Besides, anyone who mocks you, well, your old ears won’t be able to hear them anyway so who cares.
Straight Single Guy (Tyler Barnett): For guys in their twenties, like me, up to guys in their mid-thirties, I think the lowest we should go is 21. If I cannot legally have a glass of wine or cocktail with a girl, I don’t want to date her. It’s not that I am some sort of alcoholic or can’t have a good time sober, but there’s something sexy and intimate about sitting in a bar that cannot be substituted by Starbucks or Jamba Juice. It also makes me feel like an old man if I am with someone that has to use a fake ID to buy a beer. Besides, if the girl in question is still in school, the conversation will usually leave something to be desired due to her lack of life experiences and responsibilities — it’s hard to listen to tales of college papers when I’ve got bills to pay and employees to manage, you know? There is a lot to be said for being in the same place in life, age-wise at least. But generally, I think women a good five years younger (so long as they aren’t under 21) work well since women tend to be more mature than us guys. For an older man, say in his forties or fifties, a fifteen year age gap is socially acceptable and generally comfortable. And I think once a woman passes the age of thirty, up to a twenty year difference with an older guy is just fine.
Straight Married Guy (Jim): Come on, give us guys some credit: most of us know there’s a huge difference (emotionally, intellectually, maturity-wise) between someone around our own age and an 18-year-old with AP credit. She’d have to be a Rhodes Scholar studying quantum physics if the difference in their ages was more than about 25% of his. So, what does he teach?
Our “wise guys” are a rotating group of contributors, some of whom wish to remain anonymous and some of whom like the attention. This week’s Straight Married Guy is Jim from New York, our Gay Guy is Jay Dyckman, an LA copywriter, and our Single Straight Guy is Tyler Barnett, owner of the LA PR firm Barnett Ellman. To ask the guys your own question, click here.
May 27th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Ooh! I have to bring up this, then. while not immutable, is a fairly decent rule of thumb for when you’re trying to decide, “is this creepy?”
http://xkcd.com/314/
For those iffy on following a link, the XKCD standard creepiness rule:
Don’t date under [(age/2)+7].
May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Ha! [(age/2)+7] is awesome.
May 27th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
I was just going to suggest that!
May 28th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Dating or relationship?
Dating – I agree with some of the above.
Relationship – if you’re serious then who the hell cares what ‘they’ say?
May 28th, 2009 at 9:28 am
What does it matter, as long is the relationship is based on genuine compatibility?
I say this as I am in my mid-20’s but am dating a man 26 years older than me. We have many common interests and we’re pretty much happy all the time. Initially, I think some of my friends were creeped out by me dating someone so much older than me, but they’ve all gotten to know him and think he’s an awesome guy – now they just complain that I never have anything to contribute during bitching-about-relationships sessions. His social circle has been very accepting of me as well.
Dating someone younger for the trophy aspect is creepy, but if two people just work well together, there’s no sense in saying no to a great relationship because of age.
May 28th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I agree – if it is a serious relationship, then what other people think should not matter a bit! As long as you get along well and there is no power struggle, then why not?
I started dating the love of my life just before I turned 18 (met when I was 17). He is 5 years older than me, and never has there been a time when we didn’t click because of the slight age difference. [Granted, the legal drinking age where we live is 18... HA HA!
]
May 28th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
XKCD’s formula’s pretty great but I’m more impressed with Jay Dyckman’s answer. Not least about the way society writes you off past age 35.
For the record it’s not that people aren’t still sexy, let alone(!!!) sexual after 35. It’s just that nobody’s really trying to police you. (Well, there *was* that bill introduced in Massachusetts to extend child-sex and child-pornography laws to “protect” everyone over 60. 60!!! But in committee it seems to have died the humiliating death it deserved.)
Anyway, Dyckman’s also right that after 35 pretty much *everyone* agrees you’re an adult and thus capable of making your own decisions. Also, more importantly, of not really caring so much what other people think.
Good question, great answer.
figleaf
May 29th, 2009 at 12:47 am
I breathlessly await the article that addresses Hot Cougar vs. Creepy Cougar.
May 29th, 2009 at 2:47 am
I first heard the (age/2)+7 rule from the woman who teaches cougar classes. (I read it on the internet – I haven’t taken a class in cougaring yet.) Her point was that if women followed that rule in choosing their young lovers, they would be less likely to be older than the young’un’s mother. Let’s see… does it work? 40 and 27. OK. 50 and 32. Borderline. 60 and 37. Lots of moms would be younger than the cougar. But that cougar would have to be pretty hot!
May 30th, 2009 at 11:06 am
pish posh. why, as a young attractive female in her early 20s, would I go for a guy much older than me? I agree there is a maturity gap between men and women in my age range, but I’d rather casually date and then look for a relationship with someone around my actual age when I’m nearing 30. Guys will be guys–you can’t expect THAT to change with a 5 or even 10 year age gap.
May 31st, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I think is a way to make people feel prematurely aged. On occassion, I find myself (I’m 39, my wife is 27) in bars full of people between 21 and 30. NONE of them can keep up with me (neither can my wife). I drink, dance, act like a complete idiot and, when the bar closes at 2:00am, I invite a dozen people (yes, we already know most of them) back to our place to keep the party going. They’re always gone or passed out by 6:00am. Around 10:00, I start waking those who remain to go get breakfast. I have not yet been asleep.
I will accept criticism of living in spite of a number if, when I can no longer do this, I keep trying to do it, anyway. Then I’ll change demographics, and make those closer to me in age feel like they’re ancient. And no, there are no red convertables or comb-overs in my life, or in my future.
May 31st, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Age is but a number.
Maturity is another matter completely. A serious girl of 18 can date a man of 40 without issue. But truth be the matter, there are so few mature 18 year olds that perhaps serious dating is not likely. No reason to not have a fun date to share time and learn if compatibility is possible.
I also think a woman of 60 who feels and acts young should not be dissuaded from dating a man of 30. Women can find their inner youth and retain it much longer if they desire.
The real problem is the common experience question. A generation apart makes that more difficult, but if one partner is truly interesting in learning through the other, a beautiful relationship can be made.
So a 60 year old woman, who still knows how to turn heads, should not care if those heads are 80 or 20. If she has it, flaunt and flirt.
An older man needs to be careful not to be a father-figure, but a true partner. If he is dating the much younger, he needs to ensure he is making her life everything she wants it to be. And he needs to be sure she will be taken care of when he eventually dies first.
True love knows no age. that is but a number in the wind.
June 1st, 2009 at 5:54 pm
1/2 + 7 rocks!
June 1st, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I agree with Publius (among others) in that there are a host of factors other than chronological age which can make a relationship viable or not. That make it creepy or not. However, the post above notes that while “A serious girl of 18 can date a man of 40 without issue… there are so few mature 18 year olds that perhaps serious dating is not likely.” Fortunately there are more than enough immature 40 year old men to make such a pairing feasible. Though still creepy.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:41 am
I really think it’s not an age thing so much as how you look together. If you are a young-looking thirty-something+ and your girl is in her twenties, as long as you don’t look like grandpa, you’re ok. But the maturity thing is important too. Also, what happens in the sack is important as well, because if you both have no chemistry, you’re screwed…
June 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
There is a saying among my (almost senior) age group of women (and yes, it is cynical): An older (much older than 35) man is looking for either a purse or a nurse. When a man is 40 and a woman 21 or 25, there is still vitality on both sides. But look out when the man ages 15 or 20 yrs down the road. I know of a few May (female) – Dec (male) combinations, where the woman matured and just plain got tired of the old guy — then took him for every penny. So think twice and don’t be blinded by youth/beauty.
June 22nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Should you care about an age difference? and whats all this talk about whats creepy/ if you love somone thats incredable, most people never find true unconditional love, im 44 and my girlfriend is 20 so if you think im a creep ,go to hell, mind your own bussiness and enjoy playing ebox ,your super sized meals , and everything else that you get when you are involved with a under 30 year old imature jackass
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
I feel very funny about saying this and I am freaked out on this subject. It started when I was 65 yrs. old. Yes this true. I meet this Lady by luck ,we talked and laught alot. She did not believe my age she asked me to show her my drivers license and I did. She was 42 yrs old. After a month of seeing each other She moved in by me. My 4 sons and their wifes meet her and my 5 grand daughters. To my suprise every one loved it. Only my sons and their friends rib me about it alot and ask how I do it. I tell them she must be blind and deaf and dumb. After 4yrs. I broke up with her. She was really beautifull,Really! I didn’t want to ruin her life she deserved beter I felt. Eight months later I meet another. She was 45 and I was 70, same as before didn’t believe my age. Yes she meet my sons and their family and they liked her alot. She got serious and I told I didn”t want to ruin her life. She said that she would have a good 20 yrs with me and I said too her not with you and she bust out laughting. I broke that off and in many ways I feel that I screwed up! I’m now 72 and still have this problem. Yes I’m lonely I have alot of lady friends and am invited to alot of gatherings, but I don’t date any more. My granddaughters and daughter in-laws te me that these ladies want them to introduce them to me. No, I don’t feel it is right. I have a battle going inside of me.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I think the equation is (YourAge / 2) + 7. With 21 being the floor. Being 30 I could date a 22 yr old.
July 17th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
So I’m 65, Ummm that means it’s ok for me to be with a lady 39.5 year old. I wish lol.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Why do you worry about it? If your an old guy with a young woman your friends will envy you, old ladies will hate both of you and everyone will want to BE you! I think I can talk for most women, if a woman is into you age doesn’t really matter, it even ceases to be a number – older guys need to be aware of the ones who are milking (literally maybe) for what she can get, and the real ladies who just like to be with you… I love attractive older me, they are secure in themselves and like to treat me like a lady – but then I also like the young ones who are on top of it all and just want to go have fun all night a screw all day… I don’t much care for middle aged men, most are too needy or trying to prove something… And most are married and in hiding when were together – you older guys are actually a prize to be had in most cases… Don’t worry about what’s an acceptable age difference – just keep lots of viagra on hand ; ) – love ya, Lo
July 19th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Age should not be an issue in a mature and serious relationship. I am 37 and my guy is 61. We can talk about anything under the sun and sex is just fantastic. It’s so intellectually, emotionally and physically stimulating. Of course, we were both initially scared of the reaction from friends or people who see us but then we both decided that what we feel for each other is more important than what people will say.
Like what Lo-ND says, being with a mature guy has its unique advantages foremost of which is being treated like a princess. Plus, I don’t have to deal with ego-massaging because the guy has already proved himself and is self-assured. He is financially established and has the time in the world for me. He is a friend, a lover, a mentor rolled into one. I can’t ask for anything more!!
So between a guy my age and an older one, I prefer the older guy anytime.
August 29th, 2009 at 2:17 am
Age plays into you are as young as you act. As a 53 year guy, using my buddies formula of 1/2 +10 seems like a close balance for getting along, That would put me with 37 year olds and there’s plenty in common at that level to make that work. If the guy can preform and keep up, his maturity might be appreciated by the younger mate. Time will tell.
August 29th, 2009 at 3:43 am
In about 50 years or less, technology will have advance so much that it will be posible to keep a body from aging beyond 25, the physical peak in human aging.
Under those circumstances, imagine, how could we tell a person’s age, perhaps by his/her experience? Imagine in about 200 years, when 25 year old will be 25, but the rest of humanity will be 25 plus, so you could be dating a girl that is 25 year old in looks, but perhaps 100 years old, and vice versa.
The only way to die in the future would be as a victim of a bad accident, or homicide, but no death by natural causes.
Seems like fiction, and it is under today’s standards, like it was once living beyond the age of 30 ( in Roman times ) or fixing a compound fracture and walk normally again.
What would stop a 140 year old and a 27 year old from loving each other when both will look 25?
Too bad we will not get there in time, unless we freeze ourselves…… another topic altogether.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Both legal adults? Both doing it at their own consent? Society may frown, but all ok by me.
December 26th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
So is a 33yr old guy with a hot mature 21 yr old girl a cradle snatcher or a legend?
December 27th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
As long as the woman knows what she is getting into, is not being LIED to (which is SO common in these relationships, from both of them) and knows he usually wants her for arm candy and consents to that shit, I guess it’s OK.
I know some relationships where the man and woman are 10 year apart, give or take, but most farther apart than 10 year don’t last. As long as the woman knows it’s a “play” relationship and that is usually won’t amount to much……
I know SOME work out, but usually the man moves on to a younger woman when the girl gets mature. (And gets suddenly on to him.) At least, that’s what I have seen.
I wonder what people in these relationships TALK about? What common interests do they have? If an older person tries too hard to be interested in too much of young people’s interests, it’s just pathetic, (look at a 65 year old guy at a Panic at the Disco! concert. Sad.) and I imagine a man who wants a very young girl would be turned off if she was sophisticated enough to be interested in HIS interests. Unless he’s really immature, I can’t imagine there would be a lot of common ground.
I am sure in SOME relationships it works, but those are the exceptions, at least from what I have seen.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Well I am a 72 year old female and very attracted to a 30 year old man. As a woman once told me – when you’re young you can make money on it. When you’re middle aged, you have to give it away. When you’re old you have to buy it back and you know what? I don’t mind buying it back. Very few women can .. it’s usually the men who buy it back. Fortunately, I still have a good paying job and have been told I look 50 which, by the way, is my Daughter’s age. He knows my true age too. hahaha – dream on, people !
January 14th, 2010 at 11:52 am
I don’t feel age should ever be an issue. But then again I wouldn’t since I was 18 when I started dating my ex-husband who was 31 at the time. Obviously it didn’t last, but we have remained close friends. And no, I wasn’t simply ‘arm candy’ nor did was I ever treated that way.
In general there are plenty of immature older men and women, just as there are plenty of mature young men and women. In the end it isn’t really age that matters but experience.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Dating is one thing but, what about “Forever”?
I am in this “situation” (Interesting choice of words I know)… me 52 / her 30. (Most assume 40/30 when they meet us) We are in an amazing relationship approaching our 1st anniversary. Neither of us has ever been this happy. The next step in our relationship evolution would be to cohabitate. There is hesitation on both parts at this point as we both understand that we face a major “deal-breaker”…
… As I’m sure is the case with most 30 yr old women, she wants and deserves a family. I on the other hand, share the feelings of most fifty-something men… I don’t want to do that again at my age.
I understand and believe that all men are most attracted to the “Light” of a woman and that generally that light is brighter in younger women. I am captivated by her light… she consistently and absolutely lights up the room and that is becoming a rare feminine attribute. The other side of the coin is that generally, women are attracted to a solid presence and the other attributes that a mature but physically viable man brings to the table. In short… 50/30 makes a great deal of sense.
So, why am I writing this… to elicit thoughts and ideas, to help myself to make sense of it and to help figure out my next move. My gut says, step up and free her from this emotional hell. My heart says this is too good to loose. What do you think?