Ar you kidding me with this crap ok if you don’t damn well like it then don’t accept it. Another thing don’t bring your boys up to treat women with respect ugh god women are just never happy unless they can be bitches like this and i am tired of it. Seriously get off your perma pms and do something about it then you don’t like it grab the chque first you don’t want him to then hold your own damn door instead of being a typical C U Next Tuesday. Maybe you would rather a guy tell you to go F yourself pay for your own dinner and stop his foot waiting for you to open the door for him would that be better? All I have to say is wow I am glad I grew up with a wonderful mother an amazing sister and one hell of a role model for a dad because i would never want to become bitter jaded and a flat out bitch like you . As i presume now you are going ohhhh I just posted it it was someone else that wrote it well ummm you who your the bitch that posted it so you must see some truth in it so get of your what you think you have as a high horse.

Indeed, has anyone read Ian Kerner’s “She Comes First?”

I thought that book had a lot of benevolent sexism and demeaned female sexuality. Kerner acts like women should orgasm first during intercourse because they are sexually inferior. However, he does not mention that the REAL reason women should orgasm first is because of male weakness. After a man orgasms during intercourse, he can’t do anything. If a woman waits until a man climaxes, she will not get satisfied.

Also, Kerner says it takes women around 20 minutes to orgasm, but neglects to mention that without intercourse, it takes a woman only 5 minutes to climax.

Kerner says he wants to turn “foreplay” into “coreplay.” YUCK! Kerner privileges intercourse over all other sexual acts because it benefits the male.

Kerner, like so many other sexologists, takes the sexiness out of sex because he’s a benevolent male chauvinist.

There is a difference between chivalry and courtesy. Chivalry is male chauvinistic but courtesy is egalitarian. Our culture needs to teach men to be courteous to women and other men.

It’s embarassing when a man always holds the door open for me and holds out a chair for me. But it is disgusting when men slam the door in my face and arrogantly walk in front of me. Both views are inherently anti-woman.

I open doors for elderly people, (I have never been called “ageist”) and women with babies, and even men who are carrying things. Nobody seems to mind, I don’t mind when a man opens a door for me. And, I appreciate it, and would never be RUDE about it. But, it’s not “cool” to be a Lady, I guess. *sigh* One’s actions always have to have some “movement” behind them. Sometimes an opened door is JUST someone attempting to be nice. And, if the opener’s intentions are otherwise, I’m not going to assume that is the reason.

Yesterday, I was in a (locally run) coffee shop, and ordered a soy mocha latte, and then started digging through my purse to realize ALL my cash was in my other purse. A man sitting at one of the tables, working at his laptop kindly said, “Don’t worry about it, I’ve got it for you.” I wavered for a moment, then said, “Thank you very much. That is very kind of you.” Nodded to the GENTLEMAN, took my mocha, added sugar and left. End of story.

Of course my husband, when I told him later said, “He wants you.” (he thinks he’s funny) I think he (the Coffee Gentleman) was just being nice. It wasn’t sexist, I wouldn’t have refused if an other woman had offered to pay for the coffee, so I don’t see the difference. The gentleman at the Butcher Shop, later that day, also cut up my chicken (I HATE to touch raw meat) at no charge, and came around the counter to show me some new things they had in stock. My husband says, “Men do thing for you because you’re hot.” *SIGH* He’s biased, but, no, I DON’T want to give up the “benefits” not at all. We are NOT equal, I don’t assume so. WHO assumes things are “equal?” Who says “women got what they wanted.” when they DON’T KNOW what ALL of us “wanted.” We don’t all want the same things.

I appreciate “la differance” and have no problem with men who appreciate it also. That may make me “Incorrect” but I am not treated “unfairly” or “unequally” by men in most ways. There IS a difference between men and women. My husband outweighs me by nearly 100 lbs, and is more than a foot taller, he’s bigger and stronger.(As are most men, I’m tiny and petite.) He SHOULD open the damn door for me (in fact, it took me several months, when we first started dating, by simply standing there, not moving until he DID open the door (he was raised with NO manners whatsoever) until he learned to do so. He’s bigger, he’s stronger, he can open the door, pull out my chair and be a gentleman. He SHOULD do it, if strangers want to, that’s nice, too.

Your mileage may vary.

The other type is the guy who genuinely cares or is being polite. He’ll just as easily accept her opening a door for him or her paying the check.

I think, then, modern chivalry is (or should be) just politeness.

@ Flo–It might’ve been my tone that brought you to write your first sentence. My apologies; I didn’t intend for my comment to come across that way. (If you were replying to my comment at all, that is!)
“Sometimes I think people in general are getting to be more and more impolite. I do believe that it’s a good idea that people hold doors open for other people.”
Totally agreed on both counts!

@ LT–I really appreciate your comments; tactful, yet also getting me to think. It’s true that the things you list as not apt to happen are stupendous tasks. I try to think of them as things I can slowly chip away at if I make the effort day-to-day. Of course, it’s easier said than done! I try to remember that I can choose *not* to pass my crappy mood on to another, though I’m crap at that so far. Crap!

@ Jay Jay–”…more and more men are just plain lazy and using the excuse of feminism as a reason to behave poorly in social situations.” Which men? It’s an honest question, because when we have all these journalists and pundits saying the world is “post-feminism,” to me that means #1. folks might be writing feminism off, and #2. they want an excuse to get away from that *scaaaaary* word because they never got a proper definition of it.
Barring the cynicism, I’m totally aboard with your statement that, “…even if you are one of the growing-fewer-every-day guys [I'd include gals, too] that still exercises manners regardless of the person, be it a man or woman, stranger or friend, young or old, odds are you are doing it because you are a decent human being…”

I’ll try and STFU now, but one last general comment.
I think it’s telling that we have a word for men doing things for women, but we don’t for the other way around. (And how would men react to it? Would it threaten their masculinity?)
Personally, I don’t think chivalry can necessarily be separated from its chauvinist (recent) past, but I do think that discarding chivalry is in no way analogous to discarding manners and politeness. It’s the gender-loaded meanings we ascribe to those acts of decency we should try and change, which is the hard part.

“There’s a land that I see where the children are free, and I say it ain’t far to this land from where we are!”