Chivalry (in a gender role sense) is not supposed to be about doing things because a man feels a woman can’t, it’s about treating her as a lady. That means being sensitive to her needs and desires, even if her desire is to open her own door or to pay the bill, or if she needs someone to open that damn pickle jar. And in return she is to act like a gracious lady and give acknowledgment and appreciation.

Taking away a suitor’s chance to wear the pants is lame. Let him show you his goods. Let him strut. If things keep going well, you’re going to want to know he knows how to be a man, beyond cosmetic manners. If he knows how to treat a lady, maybe he’s learned to not blow the mortgage payment on a weekend bender; I say this as a recovering pants-thief. If he really believes in protecting his lady fair, he’ll know that it will hurt her feelings if they start receiving foreclosure notices. A chivalrous gent will call a plumber, when he realizes that he doesn’t have a clue. He will lay claim to her when an interloper makes an untoward comment, because he gives a damn about protecting his interests, not because he doesn’t think she can’t.

There’s something oddly erotic about the formality, as well. You both know when there are sparks. But, there’s something more intimate about the subtlety. You’re both anticipating your time to be informal, and can’t wait. He brushes your neck when he takes your coat, the way he holds your hand, getting out of the car, taking your arm and pulling you close while walking… it’s on your mind.

A note concerning who gets the check: Courting gives a man the chance to convince a female that he’s not just another prick, but is worth her valuable time. As such, the man should pay for the dates as long as they’re dating, because HE’S courting her, not vice versa. However, once it becomes a steady relationship, then sure, going dutch or she treats him is just fine.

Back to chivalry: Chivalry goes hand in hand with courting, but it most certainly doesn’t stop there. It is to a degree, a code of conduct, but it also a mind set. Treating others with due courtesy and respect should not be considered a bad thing, and that is ultimately what chivalry is supposed to be. Over-dramatization, such as outlined by Johnny should not be condoned, but perhaps these people just need some direction instead of criticism. Hey, at least they’re trying, which is a lot better than the pricks who think they’re entitled to treat a girl anyway they want just be their ego says so.

Also regarding Jay Jay’s and Nick’s post: We females have a RESPONSIBILITY to show appreciation and respect for a man who treats us with good manners. It’s hardly fair for females to bitch about there being no good men left, when they (the females) are stepping all over a man who goes the extra mile for her. Rudeness only breeds rudeness and hostility.

As for not liking to be treating like a frail object, well, I don’t like it either. But I’m secure enough in myself that if a man gets a door, the check, my coat, pulls out a chair, or gives me his coat, I somehow manage not get my panties in a bunch. I realize that he is being CONSIDERATE and is making an EFFORT. If for some reason I get the impression that he’s being overbearing or domineering, I let him know that he’s going a bit overboard–nicely. Because, after all, the poor bastard may not realize how he’s coming off, and we don’t need to contribute to making nice guys into assholes. And if he really is just an ass, then I don’t mind him paying at all; hell, he owes me at least dinner at that point.

Last note: If a woman feels threatened by a man holding a door open for her, then mayhap she needs to take those sorts of issues up with her therapist. That sort of lack of self confidence is just unhealthy.
I know it was a long post so if you got this far, Thanks.

I like to help people out with change at toilets that have a charge, or entertain someone’s kid in the shop queue while their parent pays the bill or help carry someone’s pram up stairs etc.

On dates I think it is a fine balance on the who pays for things – I don’t like men who insist on paying, in fact that will put a big no-no next to them for me – at the same time there is nothing nicer than being ‘treated’ – and both genders can do that. Have to say if a couple can’t figure out their comfort zone on this one then it might be a sign of future issues! Put it this way, so long as your courtesy makes the person feel happy and loved (by their definition not yours) rather than patronised or condescended too because of their age/gender etc then it is all good. My favourite example of courtesy is my hubby sitting ‘tap end’ when we share a bath!!!

Some of the rules are erotic: pulling out a chair, standing when a woman enters or leaves, are ways of showing attention and making “casual” physical contact.

Some of the rules are archaic but have been long modified. Men need not give up their seats to healthy women, but both should give up their seats to the frail or elderly. Some are archaic but amusing if done with flair. No man should think of ordering for a lady but it simplifies everyone’s life if…after determining her preferences…he orders for both.

Some of the rules are part of normal courtesy. The one who asks, pays, unless the invitation is clearly one of “would you like to also get tickets and join us.” It is an amusing minor courtesy for a woman to offer to pay her share on a first or second date, but everyone knows this is a question for which the answer is “no.” Conversely, hospitality must be repaid, but only at an appropriate financial level: if I can afford opera tickets and you can afford movie tickets, please ask me to the movies. PIcking a movie I would like shows more consideration than paying a fortune for a concert I wouldn’t like.

If you don’t like a ritual, just say so. Simply be aware that almost all our current courtesies are simply that…courtesies. Courtship is, or should be, a dance. If you don’t want to dance, fine. You’re missing something. I personally would not be interested in someone whose idea of wooing was saying “hey baby, what about it?” If you are, feel free to ignore this post.

Women don’t want chivalry. They want respect and courtesy. All those wet-towel weenies you dumped, the ones who paid for everything and held out your chair and drove you all over the place but never busted a move? They were chivalrous. That meat head who gets into a fist-fight over you because he thinks another meat head insulted your honor? Also chivalrous.