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Writer Defends Adulterers, Calls the Rest of Us “Holier Than Thou”

Mon, Aug 31, 2009

News, Pop Culture, Websites

secret_affairphoto via venetia_joubert_sarah_oosterveld

If you’ve listened to Howard Stern even once over the past decade (that’d be Em, not Lo), then you know that one of his most loyal advertisers is the Ashley Madison Agency — the online dating site that caters to married people with the tagline “Life is short. Have an affair.” Charming. On and off over the years, we’ve thought about reporting on Ashley Madison, but every time we did, steam would come out of our ears and we’d realize that our entire article would consist of seven words, most likely typed in all caps: “Stop cheating you slimeball pieces of shit.” Just because the site sounds like it was named by Nora Roberts, as Jezebel so brilliantly notes, doesn’t mean it’s any less sleazy, immoral, unethical, or just plain wrong. Fortunately not everyone is as “narrow-minded” as we are; Melanie Berliet, a writer for Vanity Fair recently investigated the site to find out why men cheat, which involved interviewing men who said things like “I’m a big believer in monogamy through adultery.”

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130 Responses to “Writer Defends Adulterers, Calls the Rest of Us “Holier Than Thou””

  1. james Says:

    Cheating and affairs are signs of plain and simple weakness and inferiority.

    It is simple, if you want to full around, have girlfriends ( or men if you are a woman ) and remain single, that is fine, do it, but be honest, be a man ( not a chicken ) or a woman ( not a snake ) and tell those you like that you want to remain friends.

    When you tell someone, a significant other, that you think that she ( or he if you are a woman ) is the person you want to consider your partner, your soulmate, your official girlfriend, your wife, then you are commiting to that person, you have pledged your word and you are asking that other person to trust you and to consider you a commiting mate.

    When you take that step, and when in return you are asking that other person to commit to you, and to consider you her exclusive partner, it is then that cheating, affairs, and the like becomes an issue of inferiority, an issue of lack of probity, an exhibition of boorishness and wanton betrayal.

    There are no excuses, no explanation that can make affairs or cheating the means to achieve “Monogamy through adultery” as the author of that groundless article states.

    The only inteligent ( or perhaps, the most inteligent, dolphins, chimps , dogs and even crows have shown inteligence to a measurable degree ) species in the planet can not explain cheating as inevitable or as a means to protect monogamy ( the biggest load of bunk I have heard in a while ! ) at all. Only inferiority, as in inferior beings, can explain those actions in those human beings that have resorted to and reverted to instinctive or compulsive actions, cheating is an expression and the exhibition of primitive ways of thinking, boorishness at its worst, instincts over mind, humans at the level of dogs and pigs.

  2. james Says:

    Let me add to this post that this is not an issue of being “open minded or closed minded”. Since when being a mendacious person, lies and deception becomes being “open minded”, while, apparently, being honest, commited ( or non commital if the person feels not ready to compromise ) becomes or turns a person “closed minded” ?

    This reminds me of kids, teen agers that through peer presure commit crimes or begin using drugs. The “open minded” guys become criminals, drug junkies, just to apeace the minds of those “leaders” that in fact are inferior beings herding unsuspecting or inexperienced others to act like cattle.

    Open minded and closed minded people…..I see a wolf in sheepsclothing.

  3. Elizabeth Says:

    Can someone please explain exactly what “monogamy through adultery” means? Because it sounds like someone just doesn’t actually know what the definition of monogamy is to me….

    And that website makes steam come out of my ears too. It’s so freaking gross.

  4. Slartibartfast Says:


    It’s a phrase akin to “I support property rights through theft” or “I support a pro-life agenda through assassination.” In other words, it’s either a feeble attempt at a rationalization or the deranged ranting of a diseased mind. I encountered this mind-set in a bunch of former colleagues. They knew their marital infidelities were unethical (i. e. “wrong”) and rather than embrace the fact that they were lying douche-nozzles, the men in question reinforced each other’s proclivities and gave permission to continue being dirt bags. So it goes. Unfortunately, there is a sizable portion of the population that isn’t really interested in doing ‘the right thing’. They’d rather do what they want and find a way to feel OK about it.

  5. Johnny Says:

    Oh give this a rest already. Most people cheat, or would cheat, and at the same time, most people get horribly hurt when cheated on. Even if they themselves are cheaters. It’s a big, hypocritical paradox that need not exist. Just quit attaching so much weight to who fucks who. It’s normal to sleep around.

  6. Elizabeth Says:

    Johnny – I wish that we could all be the type of person who could handle an open relationship. If you have any advice as to how I can completely override my own given emotions (other than “Just do it”) , Let me know.

    I also wonder whether or not the woman who wrote this article has been on the other side of the equation – as in, has she been cheated on? Because it’s easy for someone to say “Oh, yes, I am perfectly okay with a little adultery” if they have never been the one who’s been betrayed.

  7. Conrad Says:

    Adultery is cultural. Not all cultures are apposed to it. Some embrace it. American are horrified by it (usually), others not so much. If you are going to “cheat,” just make sure you make sure the other knows about it, and don’t freak out if they “cheat” too. If you can have a succesful relationship, while sleeping around, there is no harm in it. And it is of no business of mine.

  8. james Says:

    I do not think most people cheat. That is a fallacy. It is the most vocal side that gets the attention. It happens in many issues, like abortion, in which tha mayority of the population backs the right of a woman to decide , as opposed to the small , vocal and irrational side that backs banning abortion completely.

    I heard it before, “everybody drinks and drives”, “everybody cheats in exams”, everybody everytbody!!!!!

    Cowards and low lifes think everybody else shares their way of life! That is a valid “everybody”.

  9. Lady Tarrant Says:

    OMG. Really, Johnny? I distinctly remember my mother telling me as a child when I would say stupid shit like ‘but every body does it’ that ‘if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you?’ She had a point. If most people have unprotected sex does that mean it must be a good idea? And speaking of which, if you want to go with the whole ‘it’s natural’ argument, well so is having unprotected sex– still doesn’t make it a good idea. If people want to sleep around, if someone doesn’t feel like they can be monogamous, that’s fine. I’m glad they know themselves so well, but don’t LIE to someone and portray your self as monogamous and marry them. All that does is rob the victim of the chance to be with somebody who isn’t a deceitful, manipulating, coward who can’t even be honest with the one person they supposedly love more than anyone else. Don’t take the vows if you can’t handle them. You and people like you need to stop shoving bullshit at us. It is insulting to our intelligence that you think for a moment that we would buy such blatant, pathetic, juvenile excuses for poor behavior. Go back to the 7th grade where someone might believe you—this website is for reasonable adults.

  10. Orton Says:

    The holier than thou group has not lived a long life is my take.
    You get married have children your wife becomes frigid and just into the kids hey dont look at the tits they are milk for the kids they own the milk factory you gett eh couch. the sex life heads south and you love the wife the kids the dog the car the house but hey you like the intimacy of sex. what do you do?
    Your once wonderful sex life with the wife is now once a month or once a fiscal quarter. the open arrangement is out taboo never to be talked about but you are once a quarter twice a year in one position no talking dead fish sex..

    so what is so wrong with a hook up.. now you have two women who are pissed off at you. But at least one is giving you the happy in your giggle spot

  11. TS Says:

    While I’ve never cheated on someone I love, and would expect them to be faithful as well, I know there are some people who believe cheating is not only inevitable, but potentially healthy for relationships. When I lived in Europe, I met a lot of people who had affairs.

  12. Dannie Says:

    Honestly, my issue with it is the lying. Though I would love to ramble at the blatant exposure of misogyny, stereotypes, and ignorance, my basic point is this: male or female, if whatever you’re getting out of an exclusive relationship is not enough, be honest with the individual–because you love them, and it is worth a little effort and communication to try to make things work for the both of you. Maybe that means opening the relationship to sexual affairs. Maybe that means changing the terms of your intimacy. Maybe it means ending the relationship altogether. The point is, lying is base and shows poor quality of character. It hurts people. And it ultimately hurts the relationship.

  13. figleaf Says:

    “Melanie Berliet … recently investigated the site to find out why men cheat…”

    Yeah right. If only Larry Craig had known about Ashley Madison I guess he might not have been arrested in that Minnesota men’s room.

    Not disputing your overall piece. Just raising a point of order about magazine editors massaging the assignment to fit the stereotypes they think their readers want reinforced. In reality I understand that women who cheat *also* use Ashley Madison to do so.


  14. figleaf Says:

    And as long as I’m objecting to useless stereotypes, the guys here painting the idea that it’s a) “normal” for sex to peter out over the course of a relationship and that b) it’s always women who lose interest are, um, really, badly, seriously, even heartbreakingly mistaken. Badly mistaken. Self-deludedly wrong.

    Which is why, incidentally, nearly as many (one quarter vs. one third) married women cheat as men.

    Just sayin’


  15. kb Says:

    thank you figleaf-I do agree. also, Johnny, way to pretend open relationships don’t exist. They do, and some people(not everyone, Elizabeth is totally entitled not to want that) are very happy in them. you can be committed without monogamy. I’m not really sure how you can be committed without truth. or equality. Which is what really gets me on the whole “more than one person is more natural” thing-if that’s true, why aren’t you telling your partner and giving them that opportunity? Why do you want to be the only one they’re with, but not the other way around? which is the bullsh** part.

  16. trillie Says:

    YES, Dannie and kb. For me, too, the real crux of the matter is the lying, and the fact that when in a commited relationship, one should be able to talk honestly to each other about feelings, wants and needs.

  17. Black Iris Says:

    So breaking promises and lying are the right path for some people?

    Contrary to sensationalist media, most married people manage to not have sex outside their marriage.

    Berliot needs to open her mind and talk to the women who get cheated on, starting with the one she hurt. Getting the story from guys who want to get in your pants isn’t exactly narrow-minded, but it is naive and one-sided.

  18. Elizabeth Says:

    Kb – I totally agree… That’s my point with most “cheaters”. Most of the men and women I know who have cheated on monogamous partners (The ones who are not doing it as a cowardly way to get out of the relationship anyway) do so because THEY don’t want to be monogamous. They don’t want their partner to have other uh… partners, but they want to be allowed that for themselves.

  19. Rei Says:

    Quote from Orton: “You get married have children your wife becomes frigid and just into the kids hey dont look at the tits they are milk for the kids they own the milk factory you gett eh couch…so what is so wrong with a hook up.. now you have two women who are pissed off at you. But at least one is giving you the happy in your giggle spot”

    So, Orton, you are saying that once you get married to a great girl, and get her pregnant, come to find out she likes taking care of your kids, and is tired to have daily sex with you, you are allowed to cheat. Hummmm……You are really an idiot.

    Why is it the woman’s fault? Why do you have to go to some whore to get sex? You chose a married life, to have kids, and you disrespect your wife and kids by getting some cheap sex on the side. Such a weak little man, no little boy.

    And for open relationships, if both parties are ok with sleeping with other people, how far can this go without someone wanting to only be committed with ONE person? I think people settle with someone they are not really interested in, and cheat on them with someone they really want, and is too much of a wuss to end the previous relationship. Why cannot people be civil adults about this?
    People who cheat are inferior people and need to live in caves.

  20. Orton Says:

    So Your married lifge means you live a dull sexless existance even though you hire a nanny wine and dine your gal provide a nice house a car nights on the town and she has lost intrest in sex.

    Im not saying that it is perfect but you dont want to leave your responsibilities. Your children the house your wife who happens to be a terrific friend just not interested in the sensuality that you crave what is wrong with finding some one who rings the bell who makes you feel alive im not talking about a one nighter with no passion.

    Life is not as black and white as you nmake it out to be. If one partner wants to give up sex I am not about to beg and plead. i will woo and cajole but after a while who needs the frustration no means no.
    If I am sated and feel like I have been in a sensual sexual physical place it leaves me more emotionally available to my wife.
    I bring flowers do the dishes vacuum the house take the kids to the park all that stuff. I didn’t sign up for a sexless marriage but hey..I am not about to see my kids on the weekend and have them bed hop so I can be sexual and get that nurturing helaing viibration of life.
    all of the crap you are heaping on me is nothing but self loathing.
    I have not abandoned the role of father or provider or nuturing husband. I choose to fill my needs selfish sure but so is the cold shoulder.

  21. Elizabeth Says:

    Orton – You say your wife is a great friend, and you generally seem to care for her greatly… But see, the thing is, you are lying to her. Can you imagine how hurt she would be if and WHEN she finds out? (Because, buddy, they always find out). Plus – isn’t it a bit more likely that the divorce is going to come from you making the choice to cheat, rather than frankly discussing with your wife what you want and need?

    And btw – you are not truly being a nurturing husband if you’re flat out lying to your wife. Sorry… but one cannot both be nurturing and betraying at the same time.

  22. james Says:

    I have been reading the thread, and I can see that some guys keep making childish excuses, the newest one, that a wife, the house and the kids are responsabilities that he , the responsable ( but cheater guy ) takes care of dilligently.

    Now, the part that seems out of control, out from the control of this “responsable” guy, is his wife, woman who :

    [quote] “”"just not interested in the sensuality that you crave what is wrong with finding some one who rings the bell who makes you feel alive im not talking about a one nighter with no passion.”"” [/quote] ( by Orton)

    So, instead of talking to your wife, helping her with the chores , making more time available for her to exercise, for her to take care of herself, instead of finding out how can you help her regain her former stamina, intead, you go out and find someone that “rings the bell” .

    Have you looked at yourself in the mirror? I bet you are a slob, a beer belly couch potato. I wonder why your wife feels like sex with you is like jumping into a pool filled with vomit.

    For sure, your brain is full of it.

    Orton adds:
    “”I have not abandoned the role of father or provider or nuturing husband. I choose to fill my needs selfish sure but so is the cold shoulder.”"

    I would rather be alone, fend for my kids, and get the child support dully needed from my spouse to help in taking care of my children, than having a whore of a wife.

    What you call “responsable parenthood, a father that takes care of his role of father, provider” is a bunch of bunk. What you are is a coward that cares less about hias children and wife, a coward that hurts his wife and kids everytime he cheats, a coward that that finds it easier to cheat and hide like a chicken, rather than divorsing and paying due child support after due property settlement agreement.

    Call it what it is, the life of a coward that rather than facing the consecuences of his actions, cheats his wife of a husband, his kids of a father, and fears the day his wife would leave him.

  23. Black Iris Says:

    Orton, you didn’t sign up for a sexless marriage. You signed up to love your wife in good time and in bad and to stick to her. You signed up to be faithful. You signed up to fight for your marriage when things go wrong.

    Right now, there is something missing in your marriage. You have to take the lead and confront it with your wife. Let her know that it’s not okay, you love her, you want to stay together, and the two of you have to make a change. Find out her point of view of the problem and why she isn’t interested in sex. Then work on it together until you are both happy.

    You have abandoned the role of a good husband and if your wife finds out, you could end up with the divorce you don’t want.

  24. Black Iris Says:


    From what I’ve read, 90% of the people signed up for Ashley Madison are men. I sometimes wonder how they actually manage to cheat.

  25. Black Iris Says:

    I just wanted to add for the husbands who say they cheat because they aren’t getting sex at home – it is very unlikely that your wife is happy in a sexless marriage. At some time she may be tempted to stray. She might also wait until she feels she can divorce you. You need to solve the problem together, not avoid it.

  26. Lady Tarrant Says:

    I concur with Black Iris.

    I truly do not understand why the women are always blamed for a ‘sexless’ marriage. I don’t believe that there is some fundamental, hereditary sexual dysfunction built into women, that after so many years of marriage turns them into cold fish. It seems like a cheap excuse of lazy men who don’t want to take an objective look at themselves and ask, ‘What I’m not providing my wife that may cause her to have such a lack of interest in me?’

    Cheating really is the cowardly way out. Therapy and communication may take time, but in a marriage you’re supposed to have your whole lives to make it work so what’s a few months or even a year of putting in some extra effort and getting help.

    Furthermore, these men and women who defend men for cheating are not only harming the women (and men) that are being betrayed, but are also helping to cement the negative stereotype that men cannot be as open and honest as women.

    This is also a HEALTH ISSUE. Every person has the right to know if their partner is sleeping around. Cheating strips a person of their rights to decide how much of a sexual health risk they are willing accept, by the withholding of vital information. Cheating is a violation of a pact between any two lovers–married or no.

  27. Johnny Says:

    Everyone here’s obviously experienced infidelity – hence the spike in hostility. Difference between me and most folks is that rather than fight the tide, I’ve taken this as a sign that people are naturally inclined to stray. Men and women.

    Everyone clearly assumed I think it’s ok for me to cheat on my GF. What if I’m talking about her cheating on me? I don’t presume life-long fidelity from anyone. It’s naive. Just ask the “you swore to be married for ever and ever” camp – yeah, yeah. I bet some of the pissier people in this thread have been divorced themselves. But that’s ok, right, because it’s for THEIR reasons.

    Another thing is that the female definition of infidelity is HIGHLY flexible. While most women claim that they hate cheaters, most women are perfectly comfortable with “overlapping” – as long as a new supposedly faithful relationship comes out of the trist, you’re all good. It was meant to be, the new guy is your soul mate, the old BF wasn’t being emotionally nurturing anymore anyway, blah blah blah.

    The name-calling – you’re not pissed at me, or at Orton. You’re pissed at your daddy who cheated on your mom, or your husband who took a lover because you went frigid (as per Orton’s dilemma) or at the GF who bwoke your wittle heart by fucking the biggest douchebag in school after she swore she’d love you forever, or at the BF who cheated when you gained 30 lbs… so, sticks and stones, y’all. Take it up with whoever you’re really pissed at.

  28. kb Says:

    No, Johnny, people really can believe in finding more productive ways around relationship problems than cheating without being mad at you. Cheating is a cowards way out of actually dealing with the person you’re in a relationship, no matter if you do it or if your girlfriend does it, and no matter what does or doesn’t come of the cheating. and if you truly don’t presume long-term fedility from anyone as opposed to just not presuming it from you, why lie about it? what is the benefit of cheating over an open relationship if it’s truly expected that both parties will cheat?

  29. Rei Says:

    ^Sorry Johnny, but I’ve never cheated, my husband has never cheated, and the only person I known has cheated was way back in 7th grade. So, with no experience in cheating, I understand its wrong. There are people out there that do not stray, and actually have LOVE for their partner and do not cheat. So, Johnny, you’ve been cheated on then? By your girlfriend? Sorry to hear that. You must feel angry, and wonder why she did it. The biggest thing about cheating is the lying to one another. Hey, if Orton just told his wife he felt sexually neglected, maybe he would find out that his wife thought he was the one that didn’t want sex anymore. Hummmmmm………..Communication is lost in many of these cheating partners. Hey, if you want to cheat Johnny, or Orton, talk to your gf/wife about having an open relationship, so they can have someone too, some hot man on the side for their enjoyment.

  30. Elizabeth Says:

    Not sure if I am one of the pissier people around here, Johnny – but honestly, I didn’t really think anything of your comments other than that you must be one of those truly amazing people who don’t get jealous and can actually handle an open relationship. I wish I knew how to make myself okay with that. Honest

    And yes, I have been cheated on, and I have dealt with that in my own life… But, because I know how it feels, yeah, reading Orton’s comments upset me, because I have been the woman who’s man decided to stray and I know that it hurts. REALLY REALLY bad. *Side note: He did not cheat on me because I am “frigid”… I have a higher sex drive than most men I know, including the one that cheated.* On top of that, his comments upset me because he seems content to blame his wife while saying he won’t talk to her about it… I was blamed for the reason I was cheated on – but see, I had no idea that my guy was unhappy with anything that was going on… because he cheated, rather than talked.

    Maybe we just want Orton to talk to his wife, rather than just go out and lie to her… Maybe we get upset because we don’t want others to hurt the way we once did. That’s my take anyway.

  31. Elizabeth Says:

    Oh – and also, Johnny, I did not at all assume you had cheated. I really didn’t think you were necessarily talking about cheating – just that it wouldn’t exist if we all didn’t cling to our own jealousy.

  32. AlanK Says:

    I evince a minor curiosity as to how old most of the people are who are making these replies. You see, the typical couple marries at about 30 and lives to about 85, sexually active almost all those years (thanks to improved nutrition, exercise, and the wonders of modern medicine). In a society swimming with sexuality as this one is, expecting lifelong fidelity seems unreasonable. Hell, it turns out that even swans cheat.

    This isn’t a soluble problem; we’re hardwired to want intimacy and to want novelty [sequential monogamy, anyone?]. We’re not hardwired to live 50 years with the same person. If marriage is going to survive it is going to have to change.

    BTW: here’s a brilliant essay on the topic that appeared in the gone-but-not-forgotten Web 1.0 e-zine “Suck.”
    Can’t quite recall who wrote it, but he was a fine young man and much younger then.

  33. Rei Says:

    I read the article (suck) from AlanK.

    I know many people who stayed married to the same person until death, or are still alive, and married a few decades. They work because there is communication, trust, love, understanding, and intimacy *Traits hard to come by with a cheater* If people are ‘hard wired’ to cheat, then how come everyone knows its bad to do it?? If cheating is so natural for humans to do, then why don’t everyone go into open relationships, since everyone would ‘understand?’

    I don’t buy it. There is two types of people here: Those who know better than to cheat on their loving partner, and actually ‘talk’ out the problems without going to extremes by lying/cheating behind ones’ back;
    and those people still living in the stone age, and think we are animals, and cheat because they read one article about ‘I need to spread my seed!!!’

    Do you really think the guy who has 9 children, with 9 different women is living happy, that he spread his seed? Damn child support must really put a dent into his paycheck. Maybe guys like this should think about getting out of the stone age.

  34. james Says:

    Somehow some people keep defending the cheating concept, the latest comment presents cheating as the only way to make marriage last. That is because cheaters claim that we ( humans ) are not hardwired for monogamy.

    We are animals, but animals with inteligence, which sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, and renders childish excuses irrelavant.

    The issue is not that marriage is tedious, stale, and cheating has to happen in order to help it survive. The issue is honesty, communication, love. I understand not all humans have the capacity to manage said emotions, states , feelings, responsabilities, that is a fact. Therefore, those that think or feel they are unable or incapable of comitting to a significant other, those person must refrain from marriage.

    Inferiority expresses itself in these individuals when they chose to deceive a significant other, intro a relationship of trust, where children are involved, and then, cheat.

    If those persons that can not or are unable to commit deceive a significant other and engage in marriage, then they are inferior beings, because they can not efectively manage their lives, and they have to resort to deception in order to keep a girl ( or guy if you are female ) by their side, with full knowledge that they are incapable nor able to fulfill this promisse of monogamy.

    If a person, later on, in marriage, has problems with his/’her partner, then cheating is not the answer. You must deal with your significant other about the issue, and work it out.

    The coward finds easy exit in cheating, therefore never facing the issues, and using as excuses those issues he/she could had fixed had he/she faced that issue through communication.

    If you are married,( or in a relationship.) and you think your spouse can not fulfill your expectations, after you have tried to find a solution through communication, then, you must take the step to legaly divorse/separate, and then, instead of cheating, find another partner.

    Cheating is not the solution even for those cowards that use it as such. The solution is communication, and after asessment and problem solving, only then, reconciliatiomn or else separation divorse will allow that person to seek another partner.

    If you do not love your spouse any more, instead of cheating, and if you think monogamy is not for you, then, face the music, stand up, assume your responsabilities through a divorse, and then , instead of cheating, go find another person, w/o lying, w/o ruse, trickery and word games about humans not being wired for monogamy.

  35. Elizabeth Says:

    You know – maybe I am not wired for monogamy – but that doesn’t mean I can’t overcome the hang up. Yeah, sure, monogamy is difficult – but in my opinion it’s worth it. Human beings aren’t “wired” to learn history, to use computers, to sit in a quiet place and read a book, or to stop and marvel at the beauty of the world. Yet, I do all of those things, happily. Even if when it feels difficult to do those things, because I know in the end it is worth it, for my heart and soul.

    Oh – and if human beings are naturally incapable of monogamy, where exactly does jealousy of partners come from? Because it seems pretty natural to me as well.

  36. Rei Says:

    James, couldn’t of said it more truthfully myself!

  37. Lady Tarrant Says:

    Kudos to you, Elizabeth and James.

    Sigh. I really wish some people would stay on topic. Cheating isn’t an issue of whether or not people are ‘hardwired’ for monogamy, it’s an issue of deception. If someone believes that they cannot be monogamous and doesn’t expect monogamy from their partner, then let them get married with the understanding that it’s an open relationship. Cheating is more about betraying trust than about sex. Even I, who stands firm against cheating, must admit that I have been tempted on occasion. BUT, whenever that happens I immediately tell my love, and we DISCUSS it. I, however, have never cheated on him, and it hasn’t been difficult because I do not want to become a liar and deceiver–I like having my self respect intact. I do believe that it is unreasonable to expect that one’s partner will never be attracted to nor tempted by another, but I do not, and cannot foresee being convinced, that it is unreasonable to expect one’s partner to be open and honest about it.
    If one has the strength of character to be honest and communicative, then why should they have to settle for someone who is obviously not their equal, i.e. a cheater?

  38. Lady Tarrant Says:

    Oh, and one last thing: A person can cheat even in an open relationship, because cheating is about HONESTY, or rather lack thereof, not necessarily sex.

  39. Johnny Says:

    Ok, how bout this – I was very open with my with my GF about the fact that I just don’t believe long-term monogamy is doable for me. She said, “so some day you’ll sleep with another woman?” I said, “yes, and if my theory is correct, some day you’ll sleep with another man.”

    There. Nuff said. I believe in a little thing called DISCRETION. It’s part of good manners. Having painted the bigger picture, I don’t feel I need to add all the details.

    See, experience has taught me that women who say, “I tell my man everything and can’t keep secrets because I’m honest” are actually psychos who use “truth” as their strongest weapon for generating the drama they so crave. Discretion has it’s place too.

  40. Hollie Beth Says:

    Cheating is never cool. I think if Guys & Gals want to have multiple partners just look online for those groups of people and have fun. I will never understand why people lie and get someone into what they think is a “closed” relationship and still keep acting single. If you are married or in a “closed” relationship and want more sex than you are getting just tell the other person and split up. Be a man or woman up front from the start.

  41. Anthony Says:

    *happy member of an open relationship.

    discretion is unnecessary, if you can be that open minded about your relationship just make the leap already. Because if you can’t just sit down and actually recognize what your partner is actually doing, you’re not really okay with it and those evil little emotions will slip in and things will get really dramatic and ridiculous quickly.

    closed relationship people: either refuse to commit forever to one. or get creative with the one you’ve got.

    possible open relationships: talk about how you feel to your partner and figure out the first step you can make, without forgetting that sex is a powerful bonding experience and you still can’t neglect sexuality with your main partner, unless the relationship is just financial or something i guess…

  42. kb Says:

    no, Johnny, if discretion is truly necessary-as in they would be really hurt if they found out-you’re lying and not in an open relationship. end of story. Also, let’s not forget health care-it does matter there if your partner is monogamous or not. Neither is always right or wrong, but you have to make that decision knowingly. Truth is important, and doesn’t always cause drama. I think Anthony said it all-if you can’t sit down and realize what your partner is actually doing, you aren’t okay with it. Discretion is a weapon that people use to get relationships that their partners haven’t consented to.

  43. Elizabeth Says:

    I don’t tell my guy every time I am attracted to another. But I do tell him if I am tempted to cheat for some reason. That’s where I believe discretion ends. I don’t want to hear everytime my guy sees a hot girl (though, sometimes I do!), and he doesn’t want to listen to me rave about that guy I saw at work. But if there is a problem, or a potential problem, we discuss it, in order to avoid said problem. We have discussed open relationships, but we both know ourselves well enough that neither of us would be able to handle that without hiding it… and that’s not the point of openness.

  44. lisa Says:

    Ummm….I am a single woman who sleeps with, talks to and plays with mostly married men. Why? Why not? I don’t want a lifetime relationship, I see no problem with being intimate with someone regardless of their marital status, and in general, it’s fun!

    Hate to say it, but I get the best of it. Most of the men say that there just is something missing…..and as someone who has been married, who did all I could to recreate the original intimacy of our marriage, and eventually gave up…I agree. Between community property laws and custody fights, some men just don’t want to leave. As long as I’m here, everybody is happy.

  45. Elizabeth Says:

    Lisa – Yeah – Everyone’s happy. Except, you know, the WIVES. See… I’m not one of those “Blame the woman” types, but if you KNOW that a man is married or in an exclusive relationship… wow. That’s just low.

    That country song said it best: “Well I’m not one to judge someone that I ain’t never met, but layin your hand on a married man is about as low as a gal can get.”

    There are plenty of guys out there who aren’t looking for commitment that aren’t, well, committed. So going after those who are is just plain wrong in my honest opinion. Maybe I am “holier than thou” about it, but I have been in situations where a married or taken man I have had a thing for has wanted me too… but never have I acted on that crush. Because it’s wrong. It’s lying and stealing, and it’s cheating, even if you’re not the one with a significant other.

  46. james Says:


    That is very sad, yiou need professional help. You find pride in being a second class person, you enjoy meddling into the lives of families, you enjoy acting like scum.

    I hope you get help, before you hurt someone, before you get hurt.

  47. Johnny Says:

    Oh good of you, Elizabeth – you don’t actually cheat, you just tell your man there’s some guy you’d rather be fucking right now than him. Then just let that fester in the ol’ imagination for a little while.

    See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Indiscreet, and bad-mannered. Keep it to yourself.

  48. Rei Says:

    Lisa seems like the small percentage of the population that needs to scream out “I like to make married men cheat!!, And since I know its wrong, I need to speak out so righteously I don’t feel guilty!!”

    Well, Lisa, and Johnny, no one here, can tell you what to do (Orton too for that manner).

    But, the majority of the people here, and in the world, really hate people who cheat, and you never know what they are capable of.

    I would hate to read in a newspaper, that some wife caught her husband (or husband catches the wife cheating) and takes actions into their own hands, and gun them down, slit the cheater’s throats, or cut off their genitals, etc. Sorry, but there are people who would do such a thing if they caught their husband/bf/wife/gf cheating, and seek out the other person cheating with them.

    Lisa, I hope you know self defense, you just might meet some angry wife who catches you with her husband, and you’ll end up in a wheel chair. Johnny-since you told your current gf that you will cheat someday (and her too for that matter) why don’t you two have an open relationship? Or become swingers? Or, just never have a family and get married? That will save a lot of women from making a mistake with you who think they are in a committed relationship with you.


  49. james Says:

    Most of the time women ( and men that do same ) that like to go after married parties are people that can not get the attention of sigle people. These women and men can only enter into relationships with desperate coward people that are trying to cheat on their spouses.

    Most cheaters lie to the new partner, telling them that they are single. Only a desperate single woman or man would follow a married party into a relationship of shame, guilt and secrecy. These desperate persons are intractable ones that can not enter a relationship with a single person, because of their fear to commit. The married lover is a person that can not put their insecurity on the table nor put their lives at risk, because of the inherent condition the married cheater finds himself / herself in.

    So a coward that cheats, …( with all the delusions and childish excuses about cheating as being honest, and effective way to keep a relationship with a significant other working….only a chimp’s brain would concoct such garbage.)….and a coward that fears commitment ( coward because instead of dealing with this comittment issue she / he has, she messes with the spouse of an unsuspecting other, and his / her kids.)… get together.

    Both have delusions about their situation. All the effort that could be used in dealing with their particular issues ( the coward that fears commitment, and the coward that fears facing the marital problems at hand )… all that effort is used in fantasies and hallusinations about how good they are, because one is “saving” a marriage and showing how much he loves his / her kids through cheating, while the accomplice fantasizes about how good it is to establish a relationship with a person that is not free to demand comitment, a person that is so desperate into satiating his / her sexual urges the cowardly way that he / she will take the first thing that is available, no matter how mediocre or nasty it is.

    It is amazing, but fear and cowardice are such negative forces that men and women that live by this concepts use all the remaining neurons in their fast drying brains to get themselves in deep waters.

    Your enemy is not your spouse, your sexual boredom, your fantasies about sex with other people, your enemy is that cowardice that compelles you to act in negative manners, using all your remaining abilities to conceal those acts, with leggerdemain and adroitness that show once again, how fearfull and coward you are.

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