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Wise Guys: What’s the Big Deal with Virgins?

Tue, Mar 23, 2010

Advice, Wise Guys

photo by Rafael Acorsi

Advice from three of our guy friends. This week they answer the following: “Virgins — turn off or turn on? A challenge, or too much of a responsibility?”

daniel_100Gay Single Guy (Daniel): My best friend told me once that with the first virgin you deflower, you become a cherub; the second, an angel; and third, a seraphim. She obviously loved the challenge and frankly, so do I. But it isn’t so much because you are “taking someone’s innocence” (over-romanticized rubbish that is anyway), but the mentor-like aspect of it that’s so exciting. Like a great sex partner, one needs to be trained, and a virgin is the blank canvas to make him or her a firebrand in the sack to suite your and his/her naughty needs!

james_glazebrook_100Straight Married Guy (James Glazebrook): The fact that I’m being asked this question suggests that virgins are something I should have “done” — so to speak — but never have. I was a late bloomer (I could legally vote before my first time: yet another thing I’ve never done) and when I did finally make some sloppy stabs at sex it was with girls with much more experience. Maybe I was an especially awkward lay, but if other virgins are anywhere near as nervous, ineffectual, and just plain unsexy as I was, then I don’t see the appeal. I suppose it might be different for a maiden, in the sense that if a woman is paralyzed by first-time nerves, she can probably get away with just lying there and letting her more experienced male partner do the work. This would be much harder for a virgin guy to pull off — unless he found an incredibly active and understanding female to pop his cherry — and thus the risk to reward ratio is way off kilter. All of which is to say, I suppose, that it’s not really my thing, no matter who’s holding the V-card.

mark_luczak_100Straight Single Guy (Mark Luczak): Incredibly, I have actually just begun a courtship with a woman who has as yet waited for, well, sex of any kind, really (further evidence that my life continues to be a running Seinfeld episode), so I guess I have some, uh, first-hand experience at the moment. I don’t know that either ”challenge” or “responsibility” are quite the right words for it, but at this age (early ’30s for us both), the issue is present enough that there are definitely pressures and self-consciousnesses on both sides.

I like to think I’m unselfish enough that I’ve been sensitive to her perspectives on everything (she’s not waiting for marriage or because of religion or anything like that, she just hasn’t found someone she’s comfortable with yet), and it’s actually really flattering that she’s been so open to communicating about everything thus far, let alone that I could eventually be that person to share it with (both her first time, and that level of intimacy in general).

Sure, there’s the aspect that some things will be completely new to her [insert joke about me being the best she's ever had], but really, it’s not too dissimilar to the usual aspects of two people just being new to each other — so far, some things are awkward or funny, some things feel a little mechanical or clinical, and some things are totally hot! Virgin or not, it just feels good right now to have found someone to connect with in a certain way emotionally and communicatively already, and that has only served to complement the journey on the physical side. Bottom line, we’re both just pretty excited for whatever comes next!

Our “guys” are a rotating group of contributors. This week’s Straight Married Guy is James Glazebrook of Manflet; our Gay Guy is one-time stripper and sex columnist Daniel; and our Straight Single Guy is Mark Luczak, a tech geek at Carnegie Mellon University. To ask the guys your own question, click here.

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24 Responses to “Wise Guys: What’s the Big Deal with Virgins?”

  1. Johnny Says:

    No thank you. I’d move on. I like a sexually mature woman. If anything, I prefer Ms. Promiscuity.

    Why would a woman be a virgin? Religious? Incompatible. Young? Not my type. Waiting for Mr. Right? Too cautious.

    Here’s my one “yes” to the would-you-do-a-virgin scenario:

    Virgin gets to know me in a non-sexual scenario, like we make friends or something. She starts opening up about sexual curiousity. She accurately pegs me as the type of guy who doesn’t make a huge deal out of sex – I won’t get all clingy and attached, nor will I disrespect her in any way. She tells me she’s curious. She flirts with me. As we have a couple drinks, she tells me that she’s been thinking a LOT about it lately…

    … and that’s exactly how it went down the only time I actually did de-virginize anyone. And that was in high school.

    But I wouldn’t “date” a virgin. Screw that. There is just too much non-virgin competition out there.

  2. Therese Shechter Says:

    A few thoughts on this great question for the guys:

    I hear from so many men and women who are 25 and older and totally mortified to still be virgins. By the time they get into their 30s, 40s and even 50s, the level of shame has caused many of them to retreat from social life altogether. I admire Mark’s positive attitude towards his new girlfriend as well as her willingness to be open about her sexual history. It will certainly make both of their experiences better, if and when it comes to that.

    Now, a lot of guys say they want women with some experience, but how much is too much? 10 partners? 30? I think at some point the number-of-notches-on-the-bedpost syndrome has to kick in where the woman is suddenly too experienced.

    Also, I have yet to hear from a woman who got clingy with the guy she first had intercourse with – if all she wanted was to get laid. If she was looking for a relationship, it’s another matter, but she’d feel that way whether it was her first time or fortieth.

  3. Therese Shechter Says:

    And a follow-up for Mark:

    Based on a previous post about a female virgin who wondered how long she could date a guy without having sex, I’m wondering what Mark’s cutoff would be. I think she said her man broke up after 3 months of not getting any.

  4. Mary Says:

    My question for the guys is: Who was the first one to bring up the subject? The virgin or the “debaucher”?

  5. Lovereaction Says:

    I am laughing when I think of the man I “lost my virginity” to. Sad for him to be rememebered in this shamefull way. He was a nice boy after all.

  6. Rei Says:

    It’s better to be with someone with sexual experience, not to bash virgins, but you have a better and more pleasurable time with someone whose had a few notches on the bed post.

  7. The Virginity Project Says:

    I run a website here in the UK called The Virginity Project and I get sent SO much email from virgins. This is one of my favourite all time stories and its from a 29 year old man who was desperate to lose his virginity. When he did, he wrote and told me all about it. This is a text book example of how best to lose your virginity:

    http://virginityproject.typepad.com/the_virginity_project/2008/02/the-harder-they.html

  8. Victoria Garcia Says:

    The most important thing to realize if you are a virgin is to be up front with your partner. It doesn’t matter that you’re a virgin (if your significant other genuinely cares about you). All that matters is how you bring it up.

    My friend was dating this guy for a month before he came out and admitted he was a virgin. She immediately felt awkward about it but eventually came around because he was more or less up front about it. Honesty is the best policy in this case!

  9. Anonymous Says:

    Only guys who aren’t responsible or committed would say they don’t want to date a virgin because they sux in bed anyhow. ha ha ha ha ha.

  10. Brittany Says:

    I don’t see why some guys have stated they wouldn’t date a virgin. I was a virgin until I was 20. And, my current (and only) guy had no problem with it…It doesn’t mean that the sex will not be as good, nor does it mean they have to have some moral issue for still being a virgin. Sometimes, the opportunities just never came up. I think any man who is sincere will not have an issue with it.

  11. Michelle Says:

    well, i have deflowered 3 guys, the only 3 guys i ever did. I have to say i like it sometimes and others not. The positive thing is that they really liked to please me and that was very nice but other times i do with they knew some stuff prior…i wish i didn’t have to tell them some stuff i’d like done, that they’d take the innitiative. I really don’t know how this came to happen because it was just so random but when i think about it i do think it’s funny in a way and i feel special. These three relationships were at different stages of my life and very meaningful, the last one still being present. I;m not sure how men feel about this but as a 27 yr old woman i think it really depends on the type of relationship you have. I wasn’t looking just to pop cherries and cared deeply about these men so it was random chance i guess……….but i do feel like i marked them…hahaha

  12. matt Says:

    I wonder about those who delay losing their virgginity: do they masturbat; and do they do it on a regular basis?

  13. P.E.J. Says:

    @ Matt: As a 24 yo virgin- I masturbate. I find masturbation to be a GREAT way to increase my own awareness of my sexuality. What I like and what I don’t.

    General comment: As a older virgin, Ive found it increasingly difficult to continue to “wait”. I mean when I was an adolescent it was a way of not becoming a statistic and ensuring that I was able to reach the goals that I had for myself without having a baby as an obstacle. Now that Ive finished undergraduate and I’m working on my masters its gotten harder. I’m not afraid of a unplanned pregnancy negating MY future.

    I’m still a virgin at 24-soon to be 25 in 4 months because of choice. In college I was involved sexually with a guy(everything but ACTUAL intercourse and receiving oral. I cared for him a lot seeing how I let him all up into my special personal space, but I wasn’t sure if he was REALLY interested in me so when he asked (on several several occasions to have sex)I told him I wasn’t ready-but the truth is I didn’t feel as if he was ready.

    Once I finally decide to “DO IT”, I want it to be something I can share with someone I care for deeply and that cares for me the same way. I know it will be meaningful because I’ve held on to it FOREVER!!!

  14. Lucia Says:

    In response to matt, I am still a virgin at almost 23, and I have never masturbated in my life ever. I also am currently in my first relationship ever, and we plan on getting married next year. So it’s completely normal, cause my best friend is 29 and getting married on sat and she is also still a virgin. She also never masturbated and got her first kiss from the guy she will be marrying. Don’t get me wrong, I am a sexual being, but do believe in staying pure till marriage to enjoy sex so much more.

  15. Madamoiselle L Says:

    I think, perhaps, the virgins or wanna be virgins have their heads and minds more firmly IN the gutter than those of us with a Sex Positive Attitude.

    Lucia said: “I am a sexual being.” HOW? No sex, you claim no masturbation. How are you “a sexual being?” Sexual Beings ENJOY and engage in sex, with others and with themselves, you can’t enjoy something you know NOTHING ABOUT.

    Even the Amish had their “Rumshpinga” running around time, after around the age of 16, Amish parents allow their children, boys and girls to “run around” they drink, party, drive cars, wear “English” clothes, and having sex is EXPECTED at this point. Even the Amish parents KNOW experience will result in better marriages.

    I need to ask some questions about some terminology our virgins are using.

    “Debacher” Why use this term? The man I married was my first, (Yeah, I had others later, as we had an open relationship because I was too young to commit) and I remember this first time with him as wonderful, beautiful, fulfilling and fun. No “debauchery” involved.

    Someone said about the first man she has sex with,”Sad for him to be rememebered in this shamefull way” end quote (sic, I can spell) WHY is it “shameful?” Why can’t it be a proud memory?

    Someone else said the sex “would be better” if they were both virgins until the wedding night? HOW would you know?

    Again, I am trying not to “bash” but I think we are again, putting value on something which has NO intrinsic value, (“virginity”) and using the word “pure” in a dishonest and ridiculous manner.

    The word “pure” means “clean and untainted” SEX does not “Taint” anyone, nor is is unclean. To think so IS to have one’s mind in the gutter, whether you consider yourself a “virgin” or not.

    Really, in this day and age, in an age of Enlightenment, to STILL think sex is “dirty” or that one’s Princess Pure Virginity means anything to anyone is ridiculous.

    I also think those who think this way have dirtier minds than those of us who have actually HAD sex, ARE having sex regularly and enjoying it, going by the comments and attitudes concerning the “impureness” of sex, (meaning it’s “dirty”) the “sanctity” of virginity and referring to a man who ISN’T a virgin as a “Debaucher.” WHO has the dirty mind? The Sexually Positive? Or those who bash Sex and those who ENJOY IT in all manners? (Ummmm, the answer is the latter.)

    Does anyone with these attitudes actually THINK that the minute someone says some words over you, while you are wearing a white dress your sick attitudes that sex is dirty and ugly will just fade away? They won’t.

    I know of a number of women and a few men (one of them my own mother) who had such attitudes towards sex, and “waited” until marriage (or at least said they did.) Well, they felt the SAME WAY about sex AFTER the vows were taken, sex was a horrible chore for these women, they resented their husbands for “wanting it all the time” they NEVER enjoyed it, and their sick, virgin-centric attitudes DESTROYED their marriages, all of which STARTED, by the way, with “pureness.”

    The MEN who thought this way began to think of women in a “Madonna-Whore” dicotomy, if their wives were “Madonnas” they weren’t meant to have sex with, SO WHERE do you think guys like this GET sex, while married? Not their wives. With other women. Men who have Madonna Whore complexes WILL cheat, and honey, if you marry one, thinking he will “respect” you after the wedding night, he either WILL and stop having sex with you and have sex ONLY with other women, OR he won’t respect you (even though there was a marriage) and you enter the “Whore” part of the complex, which probably will make a man like this cheat on you still. Good luck with these guys.

    As for these women with their Virgin Worship: Their ideation of sex as dirty did NOT go away after the words were said, the marriage ceremony performed and the wedding night was over, and they NEVER enjoyed sex, and even as older women still think sex is dirty, disgusting and something “men take” from women and women “Give” to get other things. ALL of them ruined their marriages with these attitudes, and were left alone…….and their men cheated…….

    Maybe they still feel their “pureness” was worth it. I don’t.

    IF you feel sex is still “dirty” by the time you are 17 or 19, IMO, you need THERAPY, not to continue to “wait for the perfect man” because, sweet things, sex will still be “dirty” in your eyes, even when HE wants it AFTER you are married. And if HE thinks “only dirty girls want sex” HOW will that change after marriage? It won’t. So, you either become the Madonna, and he cheats for sex, or the Whore, and he hates you for actually “letting him” have sex with you. Sick? YES! It won’t be what these “perfect virgins waiting for a knight on a white horse” think. They will be miserable, lonely, and cheated on.

    A ceremony changes NOTHING if your attitudes toward sex are unhealthy.

    Get your self healthy and emotionally ready for an adult relationship with a man (which INCLUDES SEX) BEFORE you take your vows, otherwise your marriage will be misery. I’ve seen women like this fail at marriage too many times to believe your lack of experience will help you in ANY WAY!

    Get some psychiatric help, or you will be left alone and miserable.

  16. SS Says:

    Good points, ML. You would like my kitchen magnet (which my husband promptly took down..killjoy!), it said:

    “I lost my virginity, but I still have the box it came in”

  17. Maria Says:

    Just curious…what do you guys actually consider being a virgin?

    I wasn’t sure what to make of Mlle. L’s statement that you can’t be a sexual being without having sex. Being a sexual being is not limited to the genital area. All humans are sexual beings from birth until death. Intercourse is just a part of it.

    I hope no one misinterprets that as meaning all humans want to have sex from birth until death, though.

    I ask because physically, I guess I am a virgin. I’ve had experience masturbating, and my boyfriend and I do basically everything but. I’m not saving myself, and I’m not trying to stay “pure” (frankly, I think that’s an absolutely awful way to look at sex. As if it dirties you!), there’s just this psychological block I can’t get past.

  18. Johnny Says:

    Mml. L wrote:

    “Does anyone with these attitudes actually THINK that the minute someone says some words over you, while you are wearing a white dress your sick attitudes that sex is dirty and ugly will just fade away? They won’t.”

    That’s a great quote.

  19. MK Says:

    ML: I have a positive attitude towards sex, but it don’t mean that I need to throw myself out there to be “emotionally” healthy. I don’t need to fit into your ideology of “healthy” either. I’m perfectly healthy myself. I’m a virgin and I’m proud to be one. I’m not going to throw myself to my boyfriend just because he “loves” me. I have sexual desires and I’m going to wait until I get marry to do whatever I want with my husband. I’ll probably be having sex five times a week because you know what. I got some strong sexual desire that needs to be release. It ain’t going to be anything time soon. SEcondly, you can blame it on the catholic doctrine on how sex is view. For the most part, they believe that sex is BAD, WRONG, and DIRTY even in marriage. Please, I believe sex is a GOOD, RIGHT, and BEAUTIFUL thing in marriage. Lastly, I don’t need thearpy. If you got something against virgins or the ideology of virginity, well guess what. I’m proud and I will keep my head high because I don’t fit into your lifestyle that you want us to live by. Marriage will be misery? Please girl. I know many marriage that are perfectly healthy becuase their sex lifestyle ARE healthy.

  20. Madamoiselle L Says:

    Hey, SS, sorry your husband took down the magnet. I had one which said “Hate is not a family value.” and one which said, “Jesus was a liberal”(Which was aimed at his racist father.) And he would put it on top of fridge when his dad came over. LOL!

    Thanks, Johnny. I just know what so many women from my mother’s generation (and younger ones with the same attitudes towards sex) who suffered so badly from the pretense that, somehow, their ideas that sex was dirty and “debauching” would simply go away on the day they got married. Few of these women with poor attitudes towards premarital ever were able to enjoy the act, even after the “words” were said over them.

    As for MK, good luck, Perhaps my assumptions will be wrong in your case. Who knows? Seems unlikely, but anything is possible.

    But, for the record, the Catholic Church does NOT think sex is “sex is BAD, WRONG, and DIRTY even in marriage.” (your quote)The Marital “Act of Love” is supposed to be beautiful and right, according to the Church.

    But the total mind and body switch from an act being filthy and sinful one day, and simply an hour long ceremony (most of my relatives go for the High Mass….) making the EXACT SAME ACT suddenly not only desirable but something women are NOT SUPPOSED TO DENY THEIR HUSBANDS FOR ANY REASON (meaning the church doesn’t believe in marital rape and the woman is supposed to “submit” any time he wants to have sex, without her feelings coming into it.) But, if sex is considered dirty one minute and then something which is supposed to be desired and enjoyed (or at least submitted to) the next seems psychologically impossible.

    But, no, the “Church” doesn’t consider marital sex dirty.

    How the same action can be two different things, dirty one minute and “beautiful” the next, simply because someone said something to you, or over you, while you were wearing a white dress is no less than illogical.

    And, it isn’t just the Church who believes this. Everyone who believes in the Cult of Perfect Pure Virginity believes the same thing.

  21. Madamoiselle L Says:

    FTR, St. Paul thought any act of sex was dirty, but the dude had some serious psychiatric issues regarding women and sex altogether. Few prohibitions on sexual acts are in the Red Letters (meaning The Man Himself J.C. said them) in my Bible.

    Maria@ “I wasn’t sure what to make of Mlle. L’s statement that you can’t be a sexual being without having sex. Being a sexual being is not limited to the genital area. All humans are sexual beings from birth until death. Intercourse is just a part of it.”

    And, Maria, there is more to sex than just intercourse. But, the person (Lucia) claiming to be a “sexual being” claims to never have engaged in any sex acts and never masturbates.

    Humans are “Sexual Beings” when the acknowledge their sexuality. As well as participate in it. Just having possessed sexual organs doesn’t do it.

    That would be like someone saying, “I am a really Literate Being. But, I can’t read, nor write, I’ve never opened a book, I don’t own any books and I don’t even have any plans to get a library card. But, I’ll get sign up at the library to get a card after I get married.” Same thing. Is this person “Literate?”

  22. Madamoiselle L Says:

    Oh, I just found this. Y’all HAVE to read this from The Onion.

    Newlywed’s Terribly Awkward First Sexual Encounter “Definitely Worth The Wait”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/horribly-awkward-first-sexual-encounter-worth-the,1614/

    OMG, this article is fantastic. Next time he might actually try “touching her vagina with my hand, but I don’t know, I hear they smell kinda bad.” And for Linda, it was “almost endurable.”

    LOL!

  23. Scarlettlo Says:

    As a 20 year old female virgin, I definetly have a few thoughts on this topic. I am very much in touch with my sexuality, and most people who meet me don’t think I’m a virgin because I have no problem making dirty jokes, or getting ‘feisty’ when alone with a guy. I don’t think sex is dirty or evil, and I don’t think I’m ‘pure.’ I’m not wanting to wait until marriage, I’m only waiting until I am comftorable in a healthy loving relationship with a man who loves me. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. I’m not waiting around for prince charming, I do like to date, but I think my first time shouldn’t be some hookup either with a stranger or guy friend. That (for me) would be degrading. And I think sex is different for everyone, I don’t think my friends who have had sex since they were 16 any less of a person than myself. I don’t exactly masturbate, but I do fantasize and think about sex frequently. I just started dating an older guy and he finds my virginity charming and sexy. He tells me it’s great I treasured myself enough to wait for someone who matters. Who knows, maybe he will be the lucky guy :)

  24. Mandy Says:

    I really enjoyed reading this because the answers from these men were direct without them being a jerk about it.

    I will admit that some of these comments were rather funny particularly those who said that an “experienced” person is better. Just because someone is experienced in the sack it doesn’t mean that they are any good at it. There are a lot of people who have a lot of experience at being lousy in bed.


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