6/13/17
Comments of the Week: To Bed or Not to Bed on a First Date? That Is STILL the Question

MVPs Dave & Johnny faced off in the comments of our recent Your Call, “Does Sex on a First Date Really Ruin Your Chances at a Relationship?” (Some of the following exchange has been edited for concision):

DAVE:

In that moment of passion it might not appear to make a difference BUT we all have active imaginations.

It’s not that hard for most guys to go…Hmmm, I wonder if she fucked another guy last night? How many guys in the last month has she fucked? Can I really be special if she bangs guys so quickly and easily? How do I “measure up” to those other guys?

Understand this…people don’t like to be hurt. It’s much easier to suddenly find yourself place on the booty call list when you sleep with someone so quickly. Your casual attitude towards sex makes you seem less like relationship material. This all comes down to the guy not wanting to be emotionally hurt.

A great book to read is Men Chase, Women Choose”. It’s in a man’s DNA to chase. What someone puts effort into, has to work for, is something a man appreciates. When it comes too easily it has no value. This often applies to many things in life and not just women and sex. Something given to you often doesn’t have the same value and something you’ve worked hard to earn.

EM & LO:

It would seem the other guys on this thread contradict your theory. We’re always wary of the “Men Are From Mars…” approach. Sure, some people, women included, like the chase and want to feel they’ve worked for a person’s affection. Others feel that if two people really connect right off the bat, why play games and wait to do something they’ll both enjoy just because of some arbitrarily prudish dating rules. Seems more cultural than biological.

DAVE:

I would not call what I’m talking about being a “prudish dating rule”. I think everyone in a relationship wants to feel “special” to their partner. I’m just pointing out that many people struggle with their partners past. Look up retroactive jealously; look at the comments on the “last partner had a big cock” thread; what you’ll see is that people struggle with these types of issues. Feeling like you’re just “next” doesn’t make for a promising start to a relationship.

This works for both men and women. No woman wants to feel she’s a notch on some guy’s belt.

What it comes down to is….do you want to find and build a quality relationship or do you just want to fuck!? All I’m pointing out is how most men view the world. I work in an alpha male environment and when you jump into bed with a guy you’re now just fuckmeat, you don’t have much value beyond that.

Not fair? Double standard? For sure, but like I said….just offering your reader my perspective.

[And] I really have to take exception to your statement: “why play games”. Is it game play to wait until you know someone better? Is it game playing to wait until you can be sure of another person’s intentions? Is it game playing to place a “value” upon yourself? This world is being reduced to swipe left or swipe right. Don’t think about your actions, don’t consider any consequences, just do what feels good in the moment.

People would do well to study brain science in order to better understand why we do the things we do. How our brain process information and makes decisions. Study the prefrontal cortex and see how it is not fully formed until our mid 20’s….which is why young people make such stupid choices and decisions in their life.

JOHNNY:

So you’re a neuroscientist now? Come on, stop it. You’re just a guy with a serious case of Madonna/whore complex. Don’t “study brain science” us.

It seems that sex is a big important deal to you, and you prefer a woman who feels the same way you do. That’s fine. Many people feel the way you do. Shared values make for better relationships. Sex is one of those issues where partners MUST be on the same page, otherwise, like you said, hurt feelings, I’m-not-special insecurities, etc.

You say, “It’s not that hard for most guys to go…Hmmm, I wonder if she fucked another guy last night? How many guys in the last month has she fucked? Can I really be special if she bangs guys so quickly and easily? How do I “measure up” to those other guys…This all comes down to the guy not wanting to be emotionally hurt.”

Well, some of us can handle that, bruh. I kind of pop a boner imagining the woman I’m with acting all slutty in the past. Sex isn’t ultra-sacred to me. I’ve stuck it in women just for fun. I also prefer a relationship based on shared values! I want a woman who’s like me.

I wasn’t born this way, Dave. I was once a jealous and insecure young man. I couldn’t stand the idea that other guys had fucked my special snowflake girlfriend. I couldn’t stand the idea that the woman who was so special to me was some douche’s half-remembered one-night-stand. I desperately wanted her to tell me that all the sex she had before me was a regrettable mistake.

Know what the root of all that was? Insecurity and scarcity mentality. As soon as I came into my own as a womanizer – as soon as the world of sexual abundance that women enjoy opened up to me too – all that cleared right up. Once I became one of the well-laid people, I ceased to resent them. Funny how that works.

One last thought, Dave: women lie about sex. They lie their hot ASSES off about it. But not to me. They lie to guys like you. They lie because they face the sort of judgement and criticism you’re ready to heap upon them. This is another thing you learn when you go from sexless chump to well-laid man: there’s a whole world female sexuality you just aren’t privy to when your mind is closed and full of judgement. They smell it on you and they lie so you don’t scorn and shame them. With an attitude like yours, you’ll never really get to know your own partner. If I spent ten minutes with your girlfriend, Dave, I could get her to giggle and confess to me things she’d NEVER in a million years tell you. I promise you that.

So what do you think?
Jump into the original discussion HERE
or start a new thread below!

9 Comments

  1. I wasn’t going to get involved here. I swear I wasn’t. I was too busy cracking up over the Spiderman “movie review.” (Nice job, guys. Keep it up.) But someone called out for professional help, and by chance I really truly am professional help, so here I am. With excellent advice. For all involved on either end of the Great Sexual Divide. And that advice is… Chill.

    I first ran across this quote via Peter Kramer (as in “Listening to Prozac”) some years ago–“Relax. No matter what decision you make it will be wrong.” True ‘dat. Life is sufficiently messy that any decision will have unpredictable bad consequences. It just goes with the territory. To sex or not to sex, is that the question? Maybe not. Maybe there is no answer. If there were one, surely we would know by now. So, to repeat myself, chill.

    Do you want my (really truly) expert opinion, as one deeply trained in the caring professions? (I wouldn’t. But what do you guys know?) There is no answer. If i (heterosexual, cisgendered, boring male person) am on a “date” with an interesting woman who entrances me, I will want nothing more than to fall into bed with her and then continue my entrancement the next day. And I will only read her rebuff as one denying my l attraction. If I am with someone who doesn’t interest me, I may indeed make a pass (all men are pigs) or go along with her encouragement, but I will not send flowers nor call again. How will you, female human being sitting across from me, know the difference? It may not be possible; men (all men are pigs) are pretty good at playing this kind of poker. So what should you do?

    I repeat. It doesn’t matter. Your decision will always be wrong. Do what you want to do at the moment. Walk away or drop your panties. You will not repulse a decent man by demonstrating your humanity nor heal a worse one with the magic powers of your pussy. Women are sexual creatures and one enjoyable fuck more or less over your life will not have major effects. If you’re dealing with real people, the question is not one of “is he/she worth fucking?” Sex is not (for most of us, at least) a business transaction. The question is one of “will I learn something useful and enjoyable from my decision?,” and if you make your decision proactively and responsibly the answer will be yes. You will never lose anyone worth having by meeting his honest lust with your own.

    Whatever decision you make will be wrong. Chill. And for god’s sake don’t expect two sweet innocent children like Em&Lo to be able to answer a question like this.

  2. There are a few things about this that makes absolutely no sense. First, why would this discussion between posters be spotlighted and given its own blog? Second, why would these posters be categorized MVP’s when there was really nothing inspiring or uplifting in what they wrote? I don’t understand.

    Anyway, these two are the few remaining regular posters here. It’s not difficult to figure out why. I would like to share my personal experience with both them and how they greatly differ. A few months ago, I was reading a blog here and a woman named Kristen made a very painfully hurtful rant that really upset me. I responded with telling a very painful secret that I had never really shared publicly. A few weeks later, Em&Lo e-mailed me and informed me that what I had posted was given its own advice blog. I was shocked and upset. I had replied with those comments but I never asked for advice. I have always been a private person and don’t like being in the spotlight and drawing attention to myself. Anyway, at first, I didn’t complain. I thought maybe there would be some good responses. In fact, there were. They came from both Em & Lo and Johnny. I didn’t necessarily agree with Johnny’s advice but I have the utmost respect for what he wrote. Even though I’m sure he could never relate to someone like me, given the sensitive issue and the very emotional and sensitive nature of what I wrote, he was very respectful. There was no personal attacks, judging, criticism, or taking my comments apart. He just gave advice. Em & Lo’s response, as far as options, was also very good. So, even though I didn’t like being in the spotlight and my comments should never have been it’s own advice blog because I never wrote to them asking advice, I felt there might be more comments like Em&Lo’s and it will be okay after all. So, I made myself even more vulnerable by writing two very long follow-up posts which revealed my thoughts, feelings and the pain associated with it regarding that issue. The next day I found that Dave responded to both of my follow-up posts. His replies were nothing like Em &Lo’s or Johnny’s. It wasn’t just about giving advice. What Dave did was took advantage of my vulnerability that I poured my heart out on a very sensitive topic and he personally attacked me, took my writings apart, judged me and criticized me. I was so upset and hurt over that incident. I insisted that Em & Lo deleted his comments, mine and take my name off that blog to update it anonymously. Dave ruined that blog by his actions towards me which were completely unnecessary. Johnny and Em & Lo’s replies with their advice could have been given to anyone in my situation. Dave made it personal. After that, he followed me around this site and had similar attitude replies to whatever I posted. He is the sole reason why I stopped posting on this site. On the other hand, I have no issues with Johnny. So, while Dave and Johnny are two regular posters here, after I described my honest experiences with the both of them, you decide for yourselves who is the better poster and who you’d rather have a conversation with. I already know what my answer is.

    1. I don’t recall your name being attached to that blog post? No one would know it was you, except you. You’re allowing your own imagination to control your thoughts and actions. Which is common for all of us….but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy or right. Most of us would be very well served to better understand the often silliness of our personal thoughts and how often they negatively impact our lives.

      Anyway…I think I offered the advice that the person (who as it turns out is you) seek professional help.
      But your reaction was so strong that for the first time in Em and Lo’s history they deleted a blog and it’s comments.
      I know you think I’m being horrid and harsh to you…but you’re not a child. You’re a man in his 50’s. Grow the fuck up! And now here you are going on about why you LEFT this site and yet here you are back again posting.
      Why are you back? Why do you need to go to such great lengths to draw attention to yourself and then get upset when someone actually pays attention to you?

      Your problems go far beyond me being critical of you and I will again offer you the advice to seek professional help. You will not be helped by visiting small penis support groups, etc. You will not be helped by looking for sympathy across the internet. You need the help of a trained professional who can help you sort though all your problems and help you deal with them.
      The problem is not the outside world, ultimately you are the problem. But the good news is….YOU are also the solution! You are the solution to your own problems! You should find that bit of advice very encouraging! It means you don’t need to rely on others, you can forge your own path, your own destiny!

      1. That wasn’t advice. It was criticizing, personal attacks, judgments and trying to take apart my every word. Your latest rant proves a continuation of that process.

        1. So I’m ranting when I tell you to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP?
          Have you done that? Have you ever sought out real help? And if not, why not? Clearly you’re not happy and you know yourself that you’ve got some real issues to deal with. So why wouldn’t you? Does it seem easier to blame others instead of accepting responsibility for yourself?

          1. So, not only are you so arrogant that you think you’re are qualified to give advice but you also think you have a right to interrogate people about their personal lives. You are wrong on both counts. I would never answer any of your questions because my personal life is none of your business. There is such a thing as a right to privacy.

          2. And I’m sure the letter writer would be made to feel uncomfortable by you and get interrogated by all of your personal questions which is why I would strongly advise her not to make any follow-up posts. Oh, btw, on that blog, Johnny and Em & Lo’s advice are still there and I have no issue with that. They did nothing wrong in their responses. You did.

          3. Oh….does someone need a specific “advice” degree in order to give advice?
            Keep playing the victim…you’re good at that role.

          4. My questions were “rhetorical”. They were intended to be questions for you to ask yourself. But your overreaction to what I wrote gives me a pretty good idea of what your answers would be.

            As for the right of privacy….you do realize this is the anonymous internet? Nobody know who you are or where you live.

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