Advice from three of our guy friends. This week they answer the following: What do you think about circumcision?
Gay Engaged Guy (Joel Derfner, author of Swish): I know one person who was circumcised as an adult, so he’s the only guy I can think of who knows what it’s like both ways — sort of the Tiresias of circumcision — but he’s also a famous actor and I have a huge, huge crush on him, so if I tried to ask him about it I would probably die of embarrassment. From a purely objective standpoint I suppose I’d say it’s a barbaric practice, but as a Jew I can’t imagine being uncircumcised. A gay Jewish friend of mine was the sperm donor for a Jewish lesbian couple, and when the issue of circumcision came up (in the event that they had a boy) it almost ruined the whole thing — my friend wanted his son to look like him, which I think is perfectly understandable, and the couple wanted not to mutilate their child, which I also think is perfectly understandable. They had a girl, so the point was moot, but I myself intend to avoid the whole issue by remaining blissfully childless forever.
Straight Single Guy (L.A. Chris): My friend recently asked whether he should circumcise his boy, and we found we were both passionately for it. But his wife was strongly against it (and she’s Jewish, go figure). We all did some research and found out that it’s generally healthier to be circumcised, so they decided to do it. But it’s a strange internal debate, because if you consider yourself anything close to a naturalist, then it’s almost hard to convince yourself of such a permanent and personal alteration of our time-honored design.
Straight Married Guy (Fred): As an adult you can’t really do anything about your own situation (grown men who get circumcised are nuts), so really what is there to discuss when it comes to sex? They both work great. It only really becomes an issue when you’re about to have a baby boy. “To cut, or not to cut” becomes your decision — and it’s a biggie. On the one hand, no one wants their kid to be singled out and branded a weirdo in the locker room if they’re in the uncircumcised minority; on the other hand, why would you ask someone to take scissors to your baby’s penis? Ultimately, “normal” is what you know, and so I think most fathers want their sons to be like them, which means in most cases the clipped will opt to cut and the sheathed will choose to let it be.
Our “wise guys” are a rotating group of contributors, some of whom wish to remain anonymous and some of whom like the attention. This week’s Gay Engaged Guy is Joel Derfner, author of Swish. To ask the guys your own question, click here.
There oughta be a Godwin’s Law about circumcision discussions.
Well two of them.
For the anti-circ people, it’ll be the word “mutilation”
For the pro-circ people, it’ll be the word “smegma”
Personally, I think circumcision is a ridiculous thing to do to a child, but I could really not give less of a fuck about other people’s children’s dicks.
I think all those hundreds of millions of high-functioning circumcised dicks puts the lie to the first godwin’s law, while basic, even rudimentary hygiene does the same to the second.
Grow up people.
A barbaric completely unnecessary mutilation.
How would you feel at “sexual maturity” if your parents strapped you to a table and cut off your foreskin?
Not a pleasant picture is it, so why would you do this to your newborn baby?
Always much more to do and enjoy with an uncircumcised joint! Both for the guy and the gal…
FORESKIN IS AWESOME! FUCK CIRCUMCISION!
There is no overwhelming health benefit from circumcising an infant. No major medical organization in a developed country recommends infant circumcision because the benefits do not outweigh the risks.
I’m not sure I understand the argument regarding abortion. We are speaking of rights of individuals and these rights increase dramatically at birth. There is *good reason* to assume that a child that IS born, and will likely grow to be an adult, would desire to have all of HIS normal, healthy, sensitive, functional genitals. It sounds as if some people here think infants have no right to bodily integrity, as if they are the property of their parents. This is NOT the case. Parents are to act as medical proxies for their children. There is no reason to assume that a child would desire to lose a part of his penis when there was nothing wrong with it. Unless there is a significant medical need for circumcision to resolve an EXISTING medical issue then the boy should be left intact and no decisions need to be considered by the parents.
The argument regarding what ignorant (ie: mostly American) women think is irrelevant. It is putting the emphasis on THE WRONG PERSON. How is what some hypothetical woman will think more important than what the individual with the penis will think? Honestly, I think a foreskin is probably a GREAT way to filter out shallow women from the gene pool. This bias that women in the US have is due to ignorance. 80% of males in the world are intact. These intact men seem to have no problem getting mates. In fact, if you look at the countries with the most famous “lovers” (Italian, French, and Latin lovers) you will see that they are from non-circumcising countries. How can this be if the foreskin is such a turn-off?
As far as smegma is concerned, women generate more of it than men. Should we circumcise women, too, so they meet some subjective standard we have of of “cleanliness”? Of course not. At most, boys need to be taught how to keep their genitals clean, just like every other part of their body. Hygiene for men is as simple as “retract, rinse, replace”. Besides, I have yet to find a man that doesn’t mind fondling his penis for a few extra seconds in the shower.
Who is to say that adult circumcision is more painful? Can you quantify the pain experience between an adult and an infant? There was a study done that showed that circumcised infants had a lower future pain tolerance than uncircumcised boys. At least with an adult they can say they are in pain and can get adequate pain relief. With in infant, they often go into a withdrawal reaction due to the pain. There is also a measurable increase in stress hormones, the heart rate speeds, and blood oxygen diminishes. Just because an infant can’t speak doesn’t mean they are not negatively affected.
Congenital phimosis, which is fairly rare, is not a reason to circumcise unless it is not able to be resolved using less invasive measures. Topical steroid creams work great at resolving phimosis within a month or two. Forced dilation with topical anesthetic is effective in virtually 100% of cases and only takes a few minutes to perform.
These things which are presented as foreskin “problems” are almost non-existent in non-circumcising countries. We know from Scandinavian studies that foreskins are typically as trouble free as any other healthy body part.
Oh, if you want to toss in “sex reassignment” look at the case of David Reimer, who had a botched circumcision and was turned into a girl. He lived a tragic life and committed suicide at the age of 38.
What I hear is a lot of talk about what parents and women feel but very little about what the boy with the affected penis will feel. Does he want all of his penis or not? Do you know the definitive answer? Of course not. Only HE can make the determination for HIMSELF. This is why the decision MUST be left to the individual. I think a LOT more weight needs to be given to protecting the rights of infant boys and a lot less weight given to the American society’s biases.
I disagree with comparing orthodontic work with circumcision. Orthodontic work is lot more time consuming, often taking years, while circumcision for an adult does not take nearly the same amount of time to heal.
I agree there are some health benefits, such as the risk of phimosis, but this isn’t common, and smegma can be prevented with proper hygiene. Looks wise I think its beauty in the eye of the beholder. Uncircumcised is much more common where I live and so a circumcised penis would look strange to me.
I’m all for letting the boy decide when he older. The health benefits I think are minimal. Most people wouldn’t condone female circumcision but why male accepted?
For those that think that a body should be left intact. Why do most parents go ahead and take care of their children crooked and bad teeth? Most of us would want our kids to enjoy a nice smile, and also enjoy all the psicological boost of enjoying such nice smile, as opposed to a messed one.
Not only that, maloclusion and bad bite is a problem that requires orthodontics, so that procedure is fashioned not only for looks, but for good facial structure development as well as good bite / oclusion.
I see circumcision as a similar procedure. Those that decide not to go ahead with it are leaving that decision to their kids upon growing up, but they are also giving their children a problem upon that time, because the procedure, as described, is painfull and time consuming for an adult.
I do not think most parents ( able parents, with the wherewithal to take care of the issue ) would want to let their kids grow into adults, with a bad set of teeth that not only look bad, but imply bite problems.
By the time the kids become adults, their facial bone structure as well as the jaw is already set and finished. Moving teeth around in adulthood would never have the permanent results nor the opportunity to grow in with the facial structure. Leaving that work for the kid to decide as an adult , provided the parents have the wherewithal to take care of it, would be malpractice.
With this issue I see 2 elements that need be considered.
1) Health issues .
2) Decision making.
There is a third element I would throw into the mix, although collateral to men. That would be, what women think about the prepuce, not about circumcision per se, but what do they think about , sex with a circumsiced penis vs sex with an uncircumsiced one.
On health issues, I was circumcised as a kid, at birth time, so I never experienced life with a prepuce/ foreskin. All I can say is that by having been circumcised, I have no issues whatsoever with smegma and the issues expressed as the cons of having a prepuce/ foreskin. Life is care free when it comes down to my penis. I feel thankful for having had this surgery at a time I was an infant . I have no recollection whatsoever of that event. It would be painfull and time consuming to have such proceedure fashioned as an adult.
On the issue of decision. I feel my parents made the right decision, which was not based on any religious imposition on their part …( it would be an imposition had it been performed on my body for such concerns, religious concerns.)… it was performed after consideration of the health issues already mentioned.
I hear the argument about being natural, untouched, etc. Religious concerns aside, I believe it is a good practice to fashion this surgery, it takes that element of danger from a male, danger of the posibility of developing problems witrh smegma and other similar concerns.
Sometimes there is the issue of foreskin that does not retract, phimosis I believe is the name, which circumcision would eliminate completely.
Many girls have told me that a penis that is circumcised looks better than a non one. I am sure there are plenty of women that think otherwise, reason why I included that concept in my issue list.
I would want my son(s) to get circumcised, because I take into account the medical issues expressed, and I think it would be time consuming and painfull for him ( them ) to do it as adults.
Religious reasons would be an imposition, so I would not impose circumcision based on religion. Medical issues and the time and suffering likely to emerge had the surgery be performed on an adult is sufficient reason for me to go ahead and recommend circumcision to my son(s).
Oh, and when I mean sex reassignment, i mean children with intersex genitals, not adults making advised decisions!
I’m sorry but I don’t believe that there can be a comparison between circumcision and abortion. I do have to say that as sexually mature people capable of bearing children or taking care of them circumcision is a decision that can but does not always have to be made. But its quite normal to consider it. Its not a matter of life or death we’re talking about here, neither is it a Sex Reassignment Surgery??? Those are waaaaay worse than any circumcision i’ve heard of. So honestly, foreskin or not vs. rebuilding a vagina….doesn’t seem like a huge deal. Although it is a good question to ponder.
I’d also like to say that abortion is different because in my opinion (i can be wrong a 100%) it’s also another individual but it’s happening inside someone else’s body… seems to me as long as there are people taking decisions in the name of others, there will always be a debate. But you can’t just throw abortion into every conversation and expect the other part of the argument to stack up…. Foreskin vs. life and death of a fetus….not the same conversation going on here…. not at all….
Foreskin is awesome, ja!
Some of you are saying to let the boy decide if he wants to get circumcised. Do you believe the same thing about abortion? Why do(es) the parent(s) get to decide whether the child lives or not. If the child does not want to be alive, its their choice, even though I discourage it strongly. But if the child wants to live, are they “jist our of luck”?
Why should this be a parent’s decision? It is the BOY’S penis for god’s sake. Unless there is a compelling medical reason that must be resolved and circumcision is the ONLY way to resolve the problem THEN parents can decide. WTH is wrong with people that hardly give a second thought to cutting up *someone else’s* genitals?? What if this child grew up desiring to have all of HIS penis? He is just out of luck?
Circumcision’s weird. My parents were unusual in that they didn’t want me circumcised as an infant but a nurse did it anyway because she was sure they wouldn’t want their son to look like he hadn’t been born in a hospital. (Hospital birth, and circumcision, being a big class and race marker in that rural Appalachian town in those days.) I was obviously too young to remember but it must have hurt — I didn’t walk for nearly a year after. 🙂
In retrospect I don’t mind that I was circumcised, but I think it would have been nicer not to have been. I have loss of sensitivity in part because the job was done poorly. On the other hand I’m most sensitive in a little bit of remaining tissue on one side so I’m glad they didn’t get it all. Still I might be an outlier. Of the men and boys I know who were circumcised when they were old enough to remember (not a large number) most say they don’t really notice much difference.
As for the “look different from your dad” argument, we didn’t circumcise my son and he’s never seemed the least bit traumatized. We thought about whether to do it or not and I realized that it would probably be best to let him decide. So my feeling is if he wants one he can save up and get one himself.
Which, you might think, he’d never consider doing. (Opponents are sure, proponents are… also sure, which is why they think it should be done in infancy.) I’m not so sure. For one thing there are about 113 tattoo, piercing, branding, and waxing parlors in a five mile radius of my home and I’m guessing that by the time he turns 18 they’ll be offering decorative circumcisions with pinking shears for textured edges. If so fine, he can save up his money and get one. And if he does it’ll be the one he wants and not the one we hoped he might. And if he doesn’t want one? Well, we made the right call, right?
Seriously, leave ’em on and let them decide.
figleaf
In Europe, the uncircumcised are a majority. It’s considered slightly odd (in the UK at least, and from what I’ve heard, in other countries too) – you’re only circumcised if you’re either Jewish or have a medical reason. I don’t know if anyone’s done a medical study on the health effects of circumcision comparing both sides of the Atlantic…