Advice from three of our guy friends. This week they answer the following: What do you think about circumcision?
Gay Engaged Guy (Joel Derfner, author of Swish): I know one person who was circumcised as an adult, so he’s the only guy I can think of who knows what it’s like both ways — sort of the Tiresias of circumcision — but he’s also a famous actor and I have a huge, huge crush on him, so if I tried to ask him about it I would probably die of embarrassment. From a purely objective standpoint I suppose I’d say it’s a barbaric practice, but as a Jew I can’t imagine being uncircumcised. A gay Jewish friend of mine was the sperm donor for a Jewish lesbian couple, and when the issue of circumcision came up (in the event that they had a boy) it almost ruined the whole thing — my friend wanted his son to look like him, which I think is perfectly understandable, and the couple wanted not to mutilate their child, which I also think is perfectly understandable. They had a girl, so the point was moot, but I myself intend to avoid the whole issue by remaining blissfully childless forever.
Straight Single Guy (L.A. Chris): My friend recently asked whether he should circumcise his boy, and we found we were both passionately for it. But his wife was strongly against it (and she’s Jewish, go figure). We all did some research and found out that it’s generally healthier to be circumcised, so they decided to do it. But it’s a strange internal debate, because if you consider yourself anything close to a naturalist, then it’s almost hard to convince yourself of such a permanent and personal alteration of our time-honored design.
Straight Married Guy (Fred): As an adult you can’t really do anything about your own situation (grown men who get circumcised are nuts), so really what is there to discuss when it comes to sex? They both work great. It only really becomes an issue when you’re about to have a baby boy. “To cut, or not to cut” becomes your decision — and it’s a biggie. On the one hand, no one wants their kid to be singled out and branded a weirdo in the locker room if they’re in the uncircumcised minority; on the other hand, why would you ask someone to take scissors to your baby’s penis? Ultimately, “normal” is what you know, and so I think most fathers want their sons to be like them, which means in most cases the clipped will opt to cut and the sheathed will choose to let it be.
Our “wise guys” are a rotating group of contributors, some of whom wish to remain anonymous and some of whom like the attention. This week’s Gay Engaged Guy is Joel Derfner, author of Swish. To ask the guys your own question, click here.
Men who wear condoms are better protected against various STD’s. Being circumcised won’t do you much good if you sleep with an infected person while not wearing a condom.
Circumcised men are better protected against various STD’s. That is the reason why so many adult men in Africa are having the procedure done. It will lower their chances of getting AIDS. A baby will feel pain, but will not remember anything. I was 8 when mine was done and remember everything in great detail. Also it is none of your damn business if I have a legal procedure done on my son. Why don’t you worry about your own kids.
Another interesting thing I learned through this:
At 19 months my oldest son’s foreskin tried to GROW ITSELF BACK.
This caused him serious pain, and it had to be forcefully pulled back, away from his penis while I held him for the doctor.
When I asked the pediatrician why this happened to my son he simply replied, “Happens to about 40% of circumcised boys, it just goes with the territory”
Which made me think, if it needed to be removed, why would it try to grow itself back?!
My son is uncircumcised—I figured he could always cut it off later if he didn’t like it, but putting it back on might be problematic…..neither was cleanliness a problem. Infant foreskins are fused with the glans, and separate later on. When? In the words of my doc, ‘when he finds it!’ And James, you are a riot–a self-righteous prig who can only see things one way.
I have two young boys, both of whom I had circumcised at birth. My decision to do so was based primarily on
1) it was the common thing to do, and I being young (21) at the time my oldest was born, was easily swayed.
2)No one really had exposed me to any information to give me the other side of the debate, or even asked if I was making an informed decision.
I was given an opportunity to be with my boys while the procedure was performed, but declined. Had I been with my first son to see the procedure, I never would have agreed to allow my second son be cut.
When my youngest was 2 years old, I saw of a video of infant circumcision, and I immediately felt like I had allowed a truly barbaric act to be committed against my children.
I am currently pregnant with twins, one of which is a boy. After much debate and discussion, my husband and I have decided that our newest son will not be cut. The U.S. really is outdated in the practice of cutting all baby boys, and remains that way, in my opinion, due to lack of information being made available to parents.
As a side note, women who say they are creeped out by an uncut penis, or prefer to be with a man that has been cut, think about this: 99% of American men are cut, the other 1% seems odd because it isn’t what you are used to, not because there is something gross about it.
It’s like saying goats milk is gross, because we grew up in a country that relies on cows to provide our milk. Go to Afghanistan and offer them cows milk, and they’re going to look at you like you’re gross. Just some food for thought.
It is useless, some people are plain intolerant of others.
I am leaving this argument. No amount of evidence will stop some people from repeating and repeating that circumcisions are bad, that circumcisions in adults hurt less than in infants, in other words, a campaign of missinformation and fact fabrication.
Circumcise your kids if you feel it is right an do not do it if you feel the contrary.
This really reminds me of the abortion issue, while one side advocates for tolerance, do as you desire, the other one advocated for arbitrarism.
And those trying to equate female circumcision to male circumcision, please stop the terror campaign, female circumcision has nothing to do with the male issue.
Bonvoyage…… cool off…..have a nice summer ( or what is left of it.)
James: Life for uncircumcised men is also carefree. A man who bathes daily will not see any smegma and cleaning one is a simple matter of retracting the foreskin and washing exactly the same way as a circumcised penis. You are repeating myths that are unfounded.
Circumcision for an adult is not necessarily a painful or time consuming endeavor. Modern medicine can provide absolute pain relief and after care pain management. Adults who are circumcised can be at work the next business day if they are not involved in an occupation that requires great exertion. Another myth of circumcision!
The health benefits are also a myth. The AAP’s Taskforce on Circumcision could not find significant health benefits despite reviewing 672 studies on circumcision. As a result of that review, they decided to not recommend infant circumcision.
The phimosis issue is another myth. The incidence of phimosis that requires circumcision to resolve is one case per 1,000 males. In fact, post surgical (after circumcision) phimosis is more common than phimosis in uncircumcised males.
Your comparison with bad teeth is a red herring. Bad teeth are a genetic defect. A foreskin is not a defect.
There is a very direct comparison to male and female circumcision. You have to consider the function of the parts, not any visual similarities. The male glans is a pressure receptor comparable to the female G-Spot. The frenular delta is a tactile sensory receptor, the same as the clitoris and it is removed/disabled during circumcision. The frenulum is a stretch receptor as is the frenar band. Removing it is analogous to removing the vaginal sphincter. The inner mucosal surfaces of the foreskin is analogous to the labia and is removed during male circumcision. Therefore, the equivalent of male circumcision in the female would be to remove the clitoris and clitoral hood, the labia and the vaginal sphincter. Most women would be highly upset that such a thing had been done to them but since it is so common for men to have it done, they accept it. Our culture has taught us that we can’t complain and we should be grateful for this mutilation. Quite the contrary! We should be up in arms!
Infant male circumcision completely neglects that males have dominion over their bodies and transfers their right of autonomy over their own bodies to others who will never use that body.
Because you do not believe you have lost sensitivity is not conclusive. You have no basis for comparison. Men who have been circumcised as adults report significant loss generally. That loss has been shown to be cumulative. Studies find that circumcised men reach impotency 7 years before men who have not been circumcised. The US consumes 54% of the world’s supply of Viagra. Indonesia (Muslim and circumcised) has the highest percapita use of Viagra type products and Israel (Jewish and circumcised) is the world’s leading counterfeiter of Viagra. Alternately, Viagra has yet to find a substantial market in Europe or Japan. There must be something there!
Elizabeth: You are also repeating a myth. An inconvenient scientific fact is that bacterials, fungals and virals can not discern or discriminate between male and female cells. This means that the same pathogens that affect males also affect females and they respond equally in either sex. Females never get surgical amputation of infected tissue to address these infections. The only reason males do is because male circumcision is socially acceptable and far more profitable for the physician.
Hygiene for the intact penis is virtually the same as for the circumcised penis. The only difference is the fraction of a second it takes to retract the foreskin. After that, it is exactly the same. Boys have the intelligence to figure this out all by themselves. No parental information is required.
.
Gosh, maybe you are right. We should cut off part of all boy’s penises because your father was embarrassed. Are you *really* making that argument???
Oh, and then you are going to use the “ignorance about a boy’s penis” argument? Did you consider asking a doctor for advice instead on opting for cutting up a boy’s penis out of convenience? Did you consider researching it online (pssst: you just leave a boy’s penis alone and wipe off the outside. After the foreskin can retract you tell him to “retract, rinse, and replace”). How about if your husband said “You know, I don’t know much about keeping a girl’s genitals clean, I think we should cut off our daughter’s labia so I don’t have to think about it”. My GOD, folks, we are talking about a boy’s penis here. It is every much as important as a girl’s genitals are. WTH is wrong with Americans that they give no regard to bodily integrity? Oh, and I have no problem labeling a parent as being bad for unnecessarily removing part of their son’s penis. I would do the same for unnecessarily removing part of their daughter’s genitals. Who is to say how much it will affect your son’s future? Things have changed since 10 or 20 years ago. Your son will grow up KNOWING it was an unnecessary procedure and not recommended for infants by medical organizations in developed countries.
If your father-in-law had needed his appendix out, would you have that done to a baby too? Circumcising a baby to prevent circumcision later in life just doesn’t make sense. In the UK, less than 1% of males need a circumcision for medical reasons, and it’s getting rarer.
If you wait, it hurts *less*, it’s safer, and the results are cosmetically better anyway. Almost males seem to prefer to stay intact anyway. If they want to get circumcised, it should be their choice. You take that choice away if you do it for them.
Drops in male circumcision:
USA: from 90% to 57%
Canada: from 47% to 9.2%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (less than 1% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.6% (“routine” circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states except one, so the rate will now be a lot lower)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%
So – I am first going to clarify that I am repeating information secondhand… It comes from my (future) father in law, who is the only man I know who was circumsized at an age old enough to remember it.
He had a series of very bad infections downt there, and as a teenager, had to be circumsized. In his opinion, it is better for a boy to be circumsized as an infant (and chose to do so for his own son). He has told me that the entire process was incredibly painful – from the infections, to the exams, to the pre-op procedures, all the way to the recovery. He also said that he was humiliated in that he had to go through that as a teenager… It was, at the time, quite embarassing to him.
Because of his experience, I probably will circumsize my own son if I ever have one. (Well, that and the fact that my fiance is not okay with that not happening). I have no idea how to teach my son how to best clean that area, how often, etc… And neither will his father. To me, it makes sense to have that done, rather than risk my son’s physical and emotional health later in life. I get that it’s a scary sounding practice but it’s been done for thousands of years… Just like the opposite has been around for eons. Maybe we shouldn’t sit around calling each other bad parents (or future parents) because of an arbitrary decision that really doesn’t actually affect our sons futures all that much.
James-
You don’t see a clear connection between FGM and MGM. It is one of ethics and rights to bodily integrity and security of person. ANY unnecessary cutting of a girl’s genitals is illegal in the US because it violates the right to genital integrity. The illegality is not a measure based on harms done. The parents of a boy can remove what will become 15 sq in of normal, healthy, functional, sensitive tissue from a boy’s genitals for no reason at all. There is a great disparity in the recognition of rights between boys and girls. You would probably go to jail if you tried to circumcise your dog, but do it unnecessarily to a boy and no one seems to care.
BTW, do you think I care if I am called belligerent? I am much more concerned with fighting for the rights of defenseless boys than what people think of me. Nor do I see a problem with verbal intimidation. And you summed it up perfectly with this: “This is a matter of opinion, you like circumcision, the other person does not, so hey, each to its own.” How about living by your own standards and recognizing that only the individual can make the right choice for himself. You seem to equate parental proxy authority with perfectly reflecting the desires of their male children.
There are no laws against circumcision so I can’t protest it? Isn’t this just a form of intimidation for you? “It’s not illegal so shut up”. Whatever. Apply that same logic to something like slavery. Legality is not necessarily equivalent to morality. In the case of elective circumcision, all that I see that matters is what the child desires.
Regarding adult circumcision, men in Africa must not be such wimps. They report little pain and fast recoveries. And the ones doing the HIV studies report a complication rate similar to that of infants. Of course, there is a bias in these studies so I’m not sure how much I trust the reports. BTW, I never said adult circumcision is not painful. I am saying infant circumcision is painful, too, and that at least adults can say they need more pain meds.
As far as sensitivity is concerned, would you agree that the sensitive tissue that is removed from circumcision no longer transmits sensations to the brain? Would you say there is a net increase in sensation, no change, or a decrease in sensation, resulting in circumcision? Are you aware that the foreskin contains some of the most sensitive skin on the penis?
While there are decisions parents must make for their kids, removing healthy body parts is not one of them. Why is that? Because it is reasonable to assume that a person will want ALL of THEIR normal, healthy, functional, sensitive body parts. Removing healthy body parts without consent and in absence of a significant gain is never a valid decision, IMO.
Remember, I am not opposing circumcision generally. I am only opposing medically unnecessary circumcision of non-consenting individuals. If an adult wants to have his foreskin removed, or all of his penis for that matter, I would fully support the decision.
BTW, why is it that you say to submit to parental authority but not in regards to a parent’s religious beliefs? Your position sounds inconsistent to me.
Johnny.
The sensitivity issue you are expressing is not conclusive. I do not think I have any diminished sensitivity due to circumcision.
I run and exercise hard ( done it all my life ) and rubbing against my penis has done zero, nothing, nada to my penis.
Had I been an australian aboriginee or a Amazon jungle native running naked through the forest, that might be a concern, but my days and my ancestor’s days of running naked through jungles have been over for a long time.
In the porn industry, 9 out of 10 penises are circumcised, non seems to have any problems with sensitivity.
Both sides inflate their pros and cons. It comes down to what the parents want to decide is best for their kids in good faith.
There are decisions parents must take for their kids, decisions that can not wait untill the kid is older. You are not going to wait for your kid to be of age to ask him if he wanted to go to a school that teaches foreign languages , which under my vision it is an asset. You are not going to wait for your kid to tell you he liked Spanish as opposed to French. Those are the quandaries of parenthood.
You can only try being the best parent you can be. I see both arguments, one calls for leaving a penis intact, another calls for circumcision. Each has its points of view. The decision taken in good faith , w/o religious considerations, but with understanding of the pros and cons is the valid decision.
I do not see any connection between female circumcision and male circumcision. Comparing those two shows lack of knowledge and an ill intention to deceive.
It is not mutilation, and it is not an unnecesary practice. Where I see the similarity between the abotion issue and this issue is inthe way anti circumcision people reply. Anti abortion people seem to have that element of entittlement, where they think they have the right to go overboard and intimidate the other side.
Here I see that anti circumcision followers reply in a belligerant tone.
This is a matter of opinion, you like circumcision, the other person does not, so hey, each to its own. There is no law that prrohibits or promotes circumcision, so there is no need to get beligerant.
You are pro it, then do what you think is better for your child. You are against it, then do what you think is better for your child.
In reply to Fletch, adult circumcision is painfull. I have seen a couple friends go through it, I would say 4 people in total that I know, and all of them told me how awfull it was, the recovery phase ( you are under anesthesia, no recollection of the actual procedure ).
“Hey! Mom! Dad! Doctor! I want my foreskin back!” – Scott Thompson
I think uncut cocks look weird because they’re not what I’m used to. I’m cut. And as a kid, I was sure glad I wasn’t one of the uncut weirdos.
Now that I’m an adult, though, I’d kind of prefer the extra sensitivity. I know that with – ahem – bigger guys, you almost can’t tell it’s uncut when hard.
A friend of mine put it this way – “imagine a woman had no external labes, so that her clit was just rubbing up against her underwear and pants all day. That’s what your dick-head is doing. No wonder it loses sensitivity.”
“A barbaric, completely unnecessary mutilation.”
I concur.