the seahorse is the only male animal that gets knocked up
Dear Em & Lo,
The way I see it, there is simply no such concept as male reproductive rights. If your girl gets pregnant and wants to keep the baby, congratulations, you’re a dad! Pay up, sucker. If you want to keep it but she wants to abort it, tough luck — there goes your progeny. The only thing a dude can do is rubber up and screen for sexual partners with similar values.
We get it, the baby’s growing in the woman’s body, and ownership is 9/10ths of the law. But come on, now. There’s got to be some kind of reasonable compromise. I don’t have an easy answer to this, and I doubt anyone else will either. Men will continue to get a raw deal here. But could you open the topic to discussion?
— Cat Amongst the Pigeons
Consider it done! What do you think, do we need male reproductive rights? And if so, what would they be? Let the debate begin (no throwing things, please) in the comments section below.
I appreciate the thoughtful debate. I don’t think that an issue this emotional and complex can be resolved over the internet, nor do I believe any of us intend for it to be. We (most of us on here, anyway) are clearly open to hearing the other opinion. I think I have sufficiently given mine, and I have also openly read the opposition. My opinion has not shifted, but I now have a better understanding of other viewpoints on the matter. I think that is the entire point of this thread – to educate people on the ideas of others.
And just to respond to Doug – I understand the current law about this issue. I think you’re getting a little too hung up on what the law IS, and not on what it SHOULD be. If this was a discussion on the current law, it would have ended after one post. If you read the opening question, it is calling for the differing opinions of people who care to give one.
I agree with Spes, she has a very legimitate point. Marriage and waiting until marriage does nothing to give a man say in the matter. The argument is moot. So Katherine, my suggestion is to re-read Spes’s comments and mine on the matter, and brush up a little on the law. Men don’t currently have a choice, and it’s not fair BUT (and it’s a big but) nobody has the right to make a woman carry a child she doesn’t want to, or be forced into doing anything that jeopardizes her health.
I’d try to rebuttal, Ben, but alas, you seem to have not read any of my previous posts, so it seems futile to have an argument with the village idiot.
As for marriage, I know I didn’t give up my rights and agree to become a submissive, witless, obedient wife when I wed, so I can’t agree that marriage solves this issue at all. Also, I am appalled that anyone would/could think that a woman ‘gives up her uterus’ by having sex. This is tantamount to stating that a man gives up his paycheck when he has sex, only worse. What century are we in again? I recall we females had a long hard—and continuous—battle to not be treated as brood mares, to have rights in spite of what her father, husband, or brothers may demand of her. I’m all for a man having a say in whether he wants to help raise a child or not, but I’m not about to let ANYONE, even my husband, have the right to decide if I choose to carry a child to term.
hole thing is fucked up needs to be changed.We all came from the nut sack and the egg its 50/50 thing women need to face and own up and change how it works
I do believe that men should have a say in what happens to a child they helped to create. The thing is, I am really not sure how exactly to translate that into legal rights. I personally would take into consideration the opinion of the father in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. My decision would not be based entirely on his opinion but it would go into consideration. But as a woman, I cannot say I would be able to agree with a law that says I HAVE to have an abortion if he doesn’t want it, OR that I HAVE to carry the child to term if he wants it. Both an abortion and a pregnancy, for me anyway, would be a HUGE deal.
But then again, I have an uncle whose first wife aborted their child without his consent and he was completely crushed. He even offered to raise the child on his own with no involvement from her (they were in the middle of their divorce when she found out) but she chose to end her pregnancy. So it’s a huge deal for us women, but honestly, it’s a huge deal for men too. I just don’t know how to resolve this issue… Which is probably true for MOST of us – hence the reason there isn’t a law about this.
Spes, after reading your post, I understand the lack of clarity in my claim that marriage is a solution. What I originally meant by that statement was that waiting until marriage to have sex can solve many problems of this nature. Maybe not in every instance (like the one you mentioned about one spouse changing his/her mind), but the main focus of this thread has become that of unwed, usually young, parents of an unborn child. Sure, it sucks that people get pregnant when they don’t want a kid. But why is it fair for the female to have full rights to her child’s life? Yes, she will be the one to carry the child through the pregnancy, but like I said before, you give up your uterus when you decide to have sex. If the father wants nothing to do with this child, then fine, the mother can have the rights. But if a mother decides she doesn’t want the baby, then the dad should get the right to decide whether or not to have his child killed or adopted, or if he wants to keep it himself. Sorry for the double post. Just wanted to clear things up.
I can’t agree that marriage is the solution. I simply don’t see how it is the solution. One can hardly reasonably claim that unplanned pregnancies don’t happen in marriages, because they do. One of the couple my want to keep the child while their spouse doesn’t feel it’s time yet. Also, what happens if the couple agreed they didn’t want children when they wed, but then after a child was conceived one of them changed their mind?
I would greatly appreciate it if someone would explain EXACTLY how marriage ‘solves’ the issue of an unplanned pregnancy and equal say among partners.
A child is a combination of half the mother’s genes, and half the father’s. Therefore, the man should have just as much say as the woman in what should be done in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. Men and women hold separate but equal roles in society, but somehow we as women have convinced ourselves that we are better than men. This is completely ridiculous and I am ashamed of the females out there who take it upon themselves to make an executive decision about a child that she has created with another person. You gave up your uterus when you decided to have sex. And I agree, marriage is the solution to this problem.
Thank you, Doug. Well said.
To answer the question–No. But, I do think there needs to be better ways of delegating responsibility amongst the parents. Sexuality has gotten very casual and may remain that way for a while (whether right or not), so it’s likely that unplanned pregnancies will result. The woman controls the biological aspect of it (and that’s as it should be as her biological contribution is greater than a mans), while a man has more influence in providing. You need both to raise a child. But if a man decides he can’t provide for a child he shouldn’t be forced to. Nor should a woman be forced to carry to term if she doesn’t think she should.
FYI-Someone mentioned that you need both parents to adopt out a child. That’s not true in all states. Some will allow one parent to legally adopt the child out to the other.
“…
So, men, when you stop cheating, running off, and prove yourselves, the whole bunch of you in the world, is when you gain rights. Why do you never hear of women doing this?
…”
Don’t be sexist, it’s disgusting. You hear plenty about women cheating, using men for their money, and what have you. Give us all a break – are you really going to base your argument on silly stereotypes? There are bad men and bad women. The proportions are, from everything I’ve seen, about equal.
The problem with the way things are right now – as I think has already been said, it’s been a few days since I read most of these comments, sorry – is that post-conception the woman has all the power. She currently has the sole power to decide whether she and the man make a major financial and emotional investment for the next 18+ years or not – that’s a span of time well beyond the bound of the fetus being part of her body. This isn’t an equitable distribution of power between the genders, which I feel is a problem – after all, the idea is for men and women to be entirely equal, right? Not men having all the power in one area and women in another.
Honestly? I’m not sure what the solution is. Clearly, forced abortions or after-the-fact opt-out clauses are out of the question – the former is a violation of personal rights, and the second shifts the power entirely the other way. Thoughts?
“feminist are disgusting people who care more for control than equality”
(beginning of a sentence, punctuation and capitalization unchanged)
Wally, it is difficult to respect your opinion when you fail to make the subject of your sentence agree with its verb. I also have to wonder what you’re doing on this site if you believe that “feminist are disgusting people.”
Perhaps the most amusing part of your hilariously un-self-aware comment is the assertion that feminists’ longing for control, not parity, so thoroughly gets your goat, which immediately follows your own belief that a man should be able to assert control over a woman’s body in the determination of whether or not she carries a fetus to term. Comedic gold.
Kristin, you made a bunch of bland assumptions. Fine, when women learn how to drive they can get car, when they learn not to bitch they can talk, when they learn not to be sluts they can have sex. BTW don’t say sorry if i offended anyone. You have the right to offend and the right to be offended, but not the right to not be offended.
It’s funny to see how women on here think if they want the baby the man should have to pay for the rest the child. I agree, except if a woman wants to abort a child and the man wants to keep it, the man has no say even though it’s just as much his as it is hers. The choice for life should be able to be one sided, the choice for abortion should be decided by both. feminist are disgusting people who care more for control than equality
Unfortunately, men don’t carry the child to term—so no, they don’t get a say. If they want to scoop it out of me and raise it independent of my uterus, sure…..they can have it…..but unpaid rent for 9 months on my body and the risk of death? nope……
… and yes. Men dserve the right to fight for the live’s of their children. Men and Women dont need to earn that right, its God given.