Advice from three of our guy friends. This week they answer the following: “Virgins — turn off or turn on? A challenge, or too much of a responsibility?”
Gay Single Guy (Daniel): My best friend told me once that with the first virgin you deflower, you become a cherub; the second, an angel; and third, a seraphim. She obviously loved the challenge and frankly, so do I. But it isn’t so much because you are “taking someone’s innocence” (over-romanticized rubbish that is anyway), but the mentor-like aspect of it that’s so exciting. Like a great sex partner, one needs to be trained, and a virgin is the blank canvas to make him or her a firebrand in the sack to suite your and his/her naughty needs!
Straight Married Guy (James Glazebrook): The fact that I’m being asked this question suggests that virgins are something I should have “done” — so to speak — but never have. I was a late bloomer (I could legally vote before my first time: yet another thing I’ve never done) and when I did finally make some sloppy stabs at sex it was with girls with much more experience. Maybe I was an especially awkward lay, but if other virgins are anywhere near as nervous, ineffectual, and just plain unsexy as I was, then I don’t see the appeal. I suppose it might be different for a maiden, in the sense that if a woman is paralyzed by first-time nerves, she can probably get away with just lying there and letting her more experienced male partner do the work. This would be much harder for a virgin guy to pull off — unless he found an incredibly active and understanding female to pop his cherry — and thus the risk to reward ratio is way off kilter. All of which is to say, I suppose, that it’s not really my thing, no matter who’s holding the V-card.
Straight Single Guy (Mark Luczak): Incredibly, I have actually just begun a courtship with a woman who has as yet waited for, well, sex of any kind, really (further evidence that my life continues to be a running Seinfeld episode), so I guess I have some, uh, first-hand experience at the moment. I don’t know that either “challenge” or “responsibility” are quite the right words for it, but at this age (early ’30s for us both), the issue is present enough that there are definitely pressures and self-consciousnesses on both sides.
I like to think I’m unselfish enough that I’ve been sensitive to her perspectives on everything (she’s not waiting for marriage or because of religion or anything like that, she just hasn’t found someone she’s comfortable with yet), and it’s actually really flattering that she’s been so open to communicating about everything thus far, let alone that I could eventually be that person to share it with (both her first time, and that level of intimacy in general).
Sure, there’s the aspect that some things will be completely new to her [insert joke about me being the best she’s ever had], but really, it’s not too dissimilar to the usual aspects of two people just being new to each other — so far, some things are awkward or funny, some things feel a little mechanical or clinical, and some things are totally hot! Virgin or not, it just feels good right now to have found someone to connect with in a certain way emotionally and communicatively already, and that has only served to complement the journey on the physical side. Bottom line, we’re both just pretty excited for whatever comes next!
Our “guys” are a rotating group of contributors. This week’s Straight Married Guy is James Glazebrook of Manflet; our Gay Guy is one-time stripper and sex columnist Daniel; and our Straight Single Guy is Mark Luczak, a tech geek at Carnegie Mellon University. To ask the guys your own question, click here.
I think, perhaps, the virgins or wanna be virgins have their heads and minds more firmly IN the gutter than those of us with a Sex Positive Attitude.
Lucia said: “I am a sexual being.” HOW? No sex, you claim no masturbation. How are you “a sexual being?” Sexual Beings ENJOY and engage in sex, with others and with themselves, you can’t enjoy something you know NOTHING ABOUT.
Even the Amish had their “Rumshpinga” running around time, after around the age of 16, Amish parents allow their children, boys and girls to “run around” they drink, party, drive cars, wear “English” clothes, and having sex is EXPECTED at this point. Even the Amish parents KNOW experience will result in better marriages.
I need to ask some questions about some terminology our virgins are using.
“Debacher” Why use this term? The man I married was my first, (Yeah, I had others later, as we had an open relationship because I was too young to commit) and I remember this first time with him as wonderful, beautiful, fulfilling and fun. No “debauchery” involved.
Someone said about the first man she has sex with,”Sad for him to be rememebered in this shamefull way” end quote (sic, I can spell) WHY is it “shameful?” Why can’t it be a proud memory?
Someone else said the sex “would be better” if they were both virgins until the wedding night? HOW would you know?
Again, I am trying not to “bash” but I think we are again, putting value on something which has NO intrinsic value, (“virginity”) and using the word “pure” in a dishonest and ridiculous manner.
The word “pure” means “clean and untainted” SEX does not “Taint” anyone, nor is is unclean. To think so IS to have one’s mind in the gutter, whether you consider yourself a “virgin” or not.
Really, in this day and age, in an age of Enlightenment, to STILL think sex is “dirty” or that one’s Princess Pure Virginity means anything to anyone is ridiculous.
I also think those who think this way have dirtier minds than those of us who have actually HAD sex, ARE having sex regularly and enjoying it, going by the comments and attitudes concerning the “impureness” of sex, (meaning it’s “dirty”) the “sanctity” of virginity and referring to a man who ISN’T a virgin as a “Debaucher.” WHO has the dirty mind? The Sexually Positive? Or those who bash Sex and those who ENJOY IT in all manners? (Ummmm, the answer is the latter.)
Does anyone with these attitudes actually THINK that the minute someone says some words over you, while you are wearing a white dress your sick attitudes that sex is dirty and ugly will just fade away? They won’t.
I know of a number of women and a few men (one of them my own mother) who had such attitudes towards sex, and “waited” until marriage (or at least said they did.) Well, they felt the SAME WAY about sex AFTER the vows were taken, sex was a horrible chore for these women, they resented their husbands for “wanting it all the time” they NEVER enjoyed it, and their sick, virgin-centric attitudes DESTROYED their marriages, all of which STARTED, by the way, with “pureness.”
The MEN who thought this way began to think of women in a “Madonna-Whore” dicotomy, if their wives were “Madonnas” they weren’t meant to have sex with, SO WHERE do you think guys like this GET sex, while married? Not their wives. With other women. Men who have Madonna Whore complexes WILL cheat, and honey, if you marry one, thinking he will “respect” you after the wedding night, he either WILL and stop having sex with you and have sex ONLY with other women, OR he won’t respect you (even though there was a marriage) and you enter the “Whore” part of the complex, which probably will make a man like this cheat on you still. Good luck with these guys.
As for these women with their Virgin Worship: Their ideation of sex as dirty did NOT go away after the words were said, the marriage ceremony performed and the wedding night was over, and they NEVER enjoyed sex, and even as older women still think sex is dirty, disgusting and something “men take” from women and women “Give” to get other things. ALL of them ruined their marriages with these attitudes, and were left alone…….and their men cheated…….
Maybe they still feel their “pureness” was worth it. I don’t.
IF you feel sex is still “dirty” by the time you are 17 or 19, IMO, you need THERAPY, not to continue to “wait for the perfect man” because, sweet things, sex will still be “dirty” in your eyes, even when HE wants it AFTER you are married. And if HE thinks “only dirty girls want sex” HOW will that change after marriage? It won’t. So, you either become the Madonna, and he cheats for sex, or the Whore, and he hates you for actually “letting him” have sex with you. Sick? YES! It won’t be what these “perfect virgins waiting for a knight on a white horse” think. They will be miserable, lonely, and cheated on.
A ceremony changes NOTHING if your attitudes toward sex are unhealthy.
Get your self healthy and emotionally ready for an adult relationship with a man (which INCLUDES SEX) BEFORE you take your vows, otherwise your marriage will be misery. I’ve seen women like this fail at marriage too many times to believe your lack of experience will help you in ANY WAY!
Get some psychiatric help, or you will be left alone and miserable.
In response to matt, I am still a virgin at almost 23, and I have never masturbated in my life ever. I also am currently in my first relationship ever, and we plan on getting married next year. So it’s completely normal, cause my best friend is 29 and getting married on sat and she is also still a virgin. She also never masturbated and got her first kiss from the guy she will be marrying. Don’t get me wrong, I am a sexual being, but do believe in staying pure till marriage to enjoy sex so much more.
@ Matt: As a 24 yo virgin- I masturbate. I find masturbation to be a GREAT way to increase my own awareness of my sexuality. What I like and what I don’t.
General comment: As a older virgin, Ive found it increasingly difficult to continue to “wait”. I mean when I was an adolescent it was a way of not becoming a statistic and ensuring that I was able to reach the goals that I had for myself without having a baby as an obstacle. Now that Ive finished undergraduate and I’m working on my masters its gotten harder. I’m not afraid of a unplanned pregnancy negating MY future.
I’m still a virgin at 24-soon to be 25 in 4 months because of choice. In college I was involved sexually with a guy(everything but ACTUAL intercourse and receiving oral. I cared for him a lot seeing how I let him all up into my special personal space, but I wasn’t sure if he was REALLY interested in me so when he asked (on several several occasions to have sex)I told him I wasn’t ready-but the truth is I didn’t feel as if he was ready.
Once I finally decide to “DO IT”, I want it to be something I can share with someone I care for deeply and that cares for me the same way. I know it will be meaningful because I’ve held on to it FOREVER!!!
I wonder about those who delay losing their virgginity: do they masturbat; and do they do it on a regular basis?
well, i have deflowered 3 guys, the only 3 guys i ever did. I have to say i like it sometimes and others not. The positive thing is that they really liked to please me and that was very nice but other times i do with they knew some stuff prior…i wish i didn’t have to tell them some stuff i’d like done, that they’d take the innitiative. I really don’t know how this came to happen because it was just so random but when i think about it i do think it’s funny in a way and i feel special. These three relationships were at different stages of my life and very meaningful, the last one still being present. I;m not sure how men feel about this but as a 27 yr old woman i think it really depends on the type of relationship you have. I wasn’t looking just to pop cherries and cared deeply about these men so it was random chance i guess……….but i do feel like i marked them…hahaha
I don’t see why some guys have stated they wouldn’t date a virgin. I was a virgin until I was 20. And, my current (and only) guy had no problem with it…It doesn’t mean that the sex will not be as good, nor does it mean they have to have some moral issue for still being a virgin. Sometimes, the opportunities just never came up. I think any man who is sincere will not have an issue with it.
Only guys who aren’t responsible or committed would say they don’t want to date a virgin because they sux in bed anyhow. ha ha ha ha ha.
The most important thing to realize if you are a virgin is to be up front with your partner. It doesn’t matter that you’re a virgin (if your significant other genuinely cares about you). All that matters is how you bring it up.
My friend was dating this guy for a month before he came out and admitted he was a virgin. She immediately felt awkward about it but eventually came around because he was more or less up front about it. Honesty is the best policy in this case!
I run a website here in the UK called The Virginity Project and I get sent SO much email from virgins. This is one of my favourite all time stories and its from a 29 year old man who was desperate to lose his virginity. When he did, he wrote and told me all about it. This is a text book example of how best to lose your virginity:
http://virginityproject.typepad.com/the_virginity_project/2008/02/the-harder-they.html
It’s better to be with someone with sexual experience, not to bash virgins, but you have a better and more pleasurable time with someone whose had a few notches on the bed post.
I am laughing when I think of the man I “lost my virginity” to. Sad for him to be rememebered in this shamefull way. He was a nice boy after all.
My question for the guys is: Who was the first one to bring up the subject? The virgin or the “debaucher”?
And a follow-up for Mark:
Based on a previous post about a female virgin who wondered how long she could date a guy without having sex, I’m wondering what Mark’s cutoff would be. I think she said her man broke up after 3 months of not getting any.
A few thoughts on this great question for the guys:
I hear from so many men and women who are 25 and older and totally mortified to still be virgins. By the time they get into their 30s, 40s and even 50s, the level of shame has caused many of them to retreat from social life altogether. I admire Mark’s positive attitude towards his new girlfriend as well as her willingness to be open about her sexual history. It will certainly make both of their experiences better, if and when it comes to that.
Now, a lot of guys say they want women with some experience, but how much is too much? 10 partners? 30? I think at some point the number-of-notches-on-the-bedpost syndrome has to kick in where the woman is suddenly too experienced.
Also, I have yet to hear from a woman who got clingy with the guy she first had intercourse with – if all she wanted was to get laid. If she was looking for a relationship, it’s another matter, but she’d feel that way whether it was her first time or fortieth.
No thank you. I’d move on. I like a sexually mature woman. If anything, I prefer Ms. Promiscuity.
Why would a woman be a virgin? Religious? Incompatible. Young? Not my type. Waiting for Mr. Right? Too cautious.
Here’s my one “yes” to the would-you-do-a-virgin scenario:
Virgin gets to know me in a non-sexual scenario, like we make friends or something. She starts opening up about sexual curiousity. She accurately pegs me as the type of guy who doesn’t make a huge deal out of sex – I won’t get all clingy and attached, nor will I disrespect her in any way. She tells me she’s curious. She flirts with me. As we have a couple drinks, she tells me that she’s been thinking a LOT about it lately…
… and that’s exactly how it went down the only time I actually did de-virginize anyone. And that was in high school.
But I wouldn’t “date” a virgin. Screw that. There is just too much non-virgin competition out there.