If you’ve listened to Howard Stern even once over the past decade (that’d be Em, not Lo), then you know that one of his most loyal advertisers is the Ashley Madison Agency — the online dating site that caters to married people with the tagline “Life is short. Have an affair.” Charming. On and off over the years, we’ve thought about reporting on Ashley Madison, but every time we did, steam would come out of our ears and we’d realize that our entire article would consist of seven words, most likely typed in all caps: “Stop cheating you slimeball pieces of shit.” Just because the site sounds like it was named by Nora Roberts, as Jezebel so brilliantly notes, doesn’t mean it’s any less sleazy, immoral, unethical, or just plain wrong. Fortunately not everyone is as “narrow-minded” as we are; Melanie Berliet, a writer for Vanity Fair recently investigated the site to find out why men cheat, which involved interviewing men who said things like “I’m a big believer in monogamy through adultery.”
“a man that “writes” insults is just expresing what a coward he is”…
Oh fuck you, you condescending prick. I try not to respond to you, because you’re such a retarded windbag, but you’ve been insulting people all over this blog. And you love doing it.
Hey, I wonder if your attitude to infidelity is the same – is it cowardly when other people do it, but ok when you do it?
So I get it, the way to show how much you crave time with your children is to cheat and misslead your family.
Go tell your son that because you love him so much, and you want to spend time with him, you decided to have sex with another woman, and the fault is mom’s, because she can not submitt to the sexual desires of his father.
Go tell your daughter that you decided to have sexs with a woman other than her mother, becausse you care so much to spend time wioth her ( daughter.)
Go tell your family that you are a poor guy that all he wants to do is keep the family intact.
Because you have no brains, you can not talk it over with your spouse, you see no reason nor solution out of that communication, and because you are a coward that could not live without his wife and house, you decide to cheat, so you can get away with it, and still keep the house and your wife.
Yes, it is only a white lie.
It is not an issue of white lies, it is an issue of “other lifes”. You are attacking and destroying the lifes of your sons and daughters, you are filling their memories and lifes with shame.
You are hurting your spouse, and all of this just because you are so coward that you could not confront your wife on your problems. You are not man enough to try remedy the situation. You are not man enough to live to the consequences of your actions. You are not man enough to divorse and let your family exit your insecurities with honor. You got to smear everyone in your funky smelling soap opera.
Hope when your kid grows up, he punches you and breaks your teeth , because one thing is for sure, you harvest tomorrow what you sow today.
Just my humble guesses — Maybe I’m right / Maybe I’m worng, but here’s what I am picking up on:
Maybe James values absolute honesty above almost all other considerations in life (and hopefully he has a partner who feels the same). More power to him, that’s great!
Maybe Orton values some other things like time with his children and his version of a satisfying sex life above absolute honesty.
Most people have told little white lies. Many people might think this is more than a little white lie, but who are we to judge without walking a mile in Orton’s shoes first? Maybe his wife doesn’t even care or want to know what he is doing or is in denial about it & wants it to stay that way? Maybe she wants Orton to stay for the kids, already has a feeling he has something else going, but doesn’t want to have it described outloud straight to her face? Maybe it’s ok as long as he keeps it discreet & doesn’t embarass her by getting caught in public & having the neighbors know and all that. Basically maybe she doesn’t want total brutal honesty either — there are people who are that way — it is true — I have known some (both sides of the couple). Maybe she has her own thing going too (or not or has what she wants, which may have nothing to do with sex). Without actually being there it is very hard to tell for sure, and Orton is there, and we are not.
In any case, speaking everything outloud isn’t the only form of communication and not every marriage or even open marriage has a checklist, and not everyone would want to chek the same things on their respective checklists if they even existed (maybe money and peace trumps wild sex for her anyway) — people come to agreements in many different ways.
Orton.
Leaving your insults aside, ( I believe people should do that in person, a man that “writes” insults is just expresing what a coward he is, tell that to a man in person )… I do not see any ” sanctimonious ” issue in my replies.
I do not care if the couple is together through religious marriage, common law or civl law, the issue is respect and honesty.
You want to have other women?, you want to have many women? you want to have multiple partners ? ( and men if you are a woman, whichever the side of the story applies to you ) … then if you are in a relationship, then terminate it, break up with that person before you hurt her / him .
If you have problems in that relationship, and you do not want to break up, to divorse, to separate, then talk with that person, instead of acting like a coward, and finding another woman / man, that will only help you avoid confronting your relationship problems, and provide you with an affair with another person, while hurting your current official partner.
It is very easy for a coward ( male or female this is a 2 lane avenue ) to avoide reality and go find a mistress or a lover. Is that what a real man does?? or a real woman does? Are you suggesting you deserve a medal for being a cheater?
Cheating means going out with one woman under false pretenses while engaged in a relationship with another. If that is what you preach, hope your partner shares your views, that is exactly what you deserve, a cheating partner.
You know what makes me puke ? Coward people like you, that have cowardice written all over your face, a man that will not confront his partner in order to improve the relationship, a man that will neither terminate the relationship because he is “scared “. a man that will find another woman and 90% of the time even lie to that other woman telling her that he is not married.
Stop trying to dress hinesty and assertiveness in a relationship ( which would be marital/couple communication and respect of each other ) with religious, sanctimonious excuses.
You smell coward, your own words tell a tale of hidding, or a mediocre lifestyle.
James,
Reading you makes me want to puke you are a pious sanctimonious ass. Sort of in the vein of Jimmy Swaggart or one of the congressional boy bumpers who is caught with a nose full of crank and a mouthful of cock.
Marriages have all kinds of flaws, mine is a wife who has lost all apparent interest in sex. the todlers have long since grown up. will I leave her for hot monkey sex as Lisa says probably not.
I am in need of sex it makes me feel good human and connceted.
divorcing over sex and throwing in the towel on my children to live apart is not my idea of fatherhood. Had my wife been honest and said hey I hate sex and after the kids are born you can pound sand.
Well maybe we wouldn’t have gotten married. but we did.
If I were to go without for years it makes me depressed angry and not a nice person to be around. Cheating okay what ever you want to call it but really a judgmental ass like James hasn’t lived a day in my shoes. I have been to counseling blah blah.
No means no if she wants to jump the boyscout leader fine. but everything else seems to work. I have made peace with my situation.
Get off your high horses not everyone lives like you do.
Um… what the hell does being fat have to do with it? It’s only ‘fat’ people with kids that get cheated on. I find it a little strange that Lisa is so obsessed with this ‘weight’ issue…
I’ve never been married or cheated on, but my father did cheat on my mother (gasp… so perhaps I’m biased?). He kept it from her and it was her finding out that lead to the vindictive divorce mentioned above. I was young at the time so OF COURSE it was hard, but would I rather have had my mom not know and been played for a fool? Of course, not. I love her too much for that and the fact that post-divorce she raised me on my own (and we did not go into poverty. we kept our house, and yes, a lot of this was because my father did still cared for me and my well-being too). I feel like I am a better person because I was raised by a strong independent woman who didn’t take shit from her husband. When I was 8 I might have cried and cried about the divorce but now at 21, I’ve learned from it. Also, only 2 of my friends growing up were from families that were NOT divorced. It is not as psychologically damaging as people make it out to be and in fact, people can learn from it. I know that I’m not going to just jump into a marriage.
Anyway, it might be easier to relate to or see Lisa and Lacey’s point of view if it didn’t come off as arrogant. Ever heard of being sexy by being subtle (and classy) as opposed to thinking you’re hot shit? Also, it’s appalling that you think you’re doing the family/kids a FAVOR by sleeping with their fathers. Absolutely disgusting. When the truth comes out (and it always does), you’re the home-wrecker if anything.
^Yes, or the Other Woman gets pregnant by the cheating husband, etc. It happens sooner or later, the fantasy ends, and someone, or multiple people in the situation get an STD, shot, stabbed, you name it. People can be really aggressive once they find a cheating spouse. We all know what people are capable of.
Mary,
Thank you, but I don’t need apologies nor sympathy. Although doing the right thing was incredibly difficult at the time, it was in the end well worth the trauma and set backs.
I also understand your aggravation. I spent three years alone because the only men who expressed and interest in me were married.
As far as what Frank had to say, I can agree with pieces of it. Although, I do believe it’s naïve to think that someone who is being cheated on would have no propensity towards violence. Furthermore, one shouldn’t think that just because they feel fine about being the other woman/man that the spouse of the cheating party is fine with cheating. In fact, I should think that if both parties in a relationship are fine with each other having multiple partners then they would be in an open relationship. The act of sex with someone who isn’t your committed partner isn’t in and of itself cheating (again, open relationships have this), it’s the deception and lack of openness that is the transgression.
I may be ‘old fashioned’ in my thinking—though I’ll not change for concern of a stereotype—but I firmly believe that if one is doing something that they feel they need to lie to their partner about, then it’s probably not the right thing to do. And once again people seem to neglect that this is also a HEALTH ISSUE that strips the victim of their rights to choose what types of risks they wish to allow themselves to be exposed to. Notably, I must admit that I put the brunt of the weight of the betrayal more on the cheating party than the other woman/man. One cannot trust the world, but they should be able to trust their partner, since their partner is the one who made the promises.
If people feel so justified for their cheating, then why do they feel the need to hide it? And if one claims that they need to hide it because their partner doesn’t feel the same about it as they do, well, then maybe they need a new partner that is more compatible with their line of thinking. My point is this: I believe cheating is wrong because deception and betrayal of trust is wrong.
Finally, a reality check: I’ve known one woman who was stabbed to death for being involved in such a nasty triangle and the man (the cheating spouse) now sits in jail for having not stepping in nor calling the police to stop the fight. I’ve also known another woman who was given herpes by her cheating husband. Neither story is romantic or even pleasant.
I didn’t mean my comment to be a personal attack on Tarrant and my commentary about my personal feelings towards men who hit on me (or try to date) who are married are just an expression of the aggravation it has caused me. I did not hit anyone, although, I did become quite good at slapping and sometimes cruel to men who would try with me. I guess I should be relieved that there is a site for married men to go trolling for affairs in one sense, but in another (in a personal-relationship sense), obviously, it bothers me. Can anyone else understand how after (barrages over the years)50+ married men try for sex, romance, etc. it can aggravate a person to anger when they are seeking a monogomous relationship(and are open and honest about that?)? It’s a real pain to repeatedly spurn the (very wrong and misplaced) advances; such is the dating scene (and I guess despite my forward thinking in some ways, I’m old-fashioned in that sense), discerning the wheat from the chaff…Maybe I didn’t take enough dating breaks to blow off the aggravation steam because it must still show!
P.S: Tarrant, I apologize things were so harsh on you for doing the right thing. In my own way, I can relate.
I guess that this is a very touchy topic with many raw emotions, but people seem to be getting awfully personal in attacking one another over this one. Many of the comments are what is called “ad hominem” i.e. attacking the person not the matter being debated. Just because someone does not like Lisa’s or Elizabeth’s or Lacey’s or James’ attitude does not prove or disprove whether adultery is good or bad (or indifferent).
We might start by calling attention to the fact that adultery has been going on throughout recorded human history, and the world has not ceased to turn yet because of it. As far as we know it has not saved the fate of our planet yet either, and many other things that might be considered rather naughty have been going on since the dawn of recorded time as well – such as stealing, fighting, etc, so the fact that adultery has existed since time immemorial is not in and of itself a valid defense of it – more just an exhibit of how tough it might be to eliminate adultery completely if one really wanted to do so, and it seems less dangerous and harmful to the general population (those not directly involved in said love triangle) than those other issues.
Since adultery is likely terribly difficult to irradiate, I would like to propose to live and let live: If one does not support adultery, then that person need not commit adultery or help someone else to commit it (meaning in this case the “biblical sense” of help to commit…) or even marry someone who is pro-adultery. On the other hand, if a person does happen to like adultery, then maybe they should be able to commit it without fear of violence or even being drug into court over the matter, as our courts are already overburdened with the people who are still stealing, fighting, etc since time immemorial – And I think that this is generally becoming the case with no fault divorce laws and such (there seem not to be so many private detectives following straying spouses around snapping pictures for divorce cases anymore these days). On the other hand, there are many benighted countries in the world where especially women might be killed for an offense such as adultery (which makes the comments of those of you calling for violent revenge terribly disturbing at least to me).
So in short: those who like cheating should feal safe to cheat, and those who don’t like cheating should not bo obliged cheat (and they probably shouldn’t even marry people who like to cheat either, as that is likely to lead to hurt feelings later too). But let’s not drag the United States into the dark ages over this issue (there other countries that one could move to if they really want to witness vigilante justice over sexual mores).
See, I don’t understand why it is that Lisa can’t seem to stick to single men. See… She talks about how the single men “always fall in love with her”, but she obviously has little respect for other people, so why does she care if she hurts them by leaving them? Or maybe it’s just women she doesn’t respect?
I don’t know. I just see it as utter selfishness on either of their parts. Both Lisa and Lacey keep bringing up these “fat slob women”… but I’ve been cheated on, I wear a size six and I always have. I have always been available sexually and open to new things. He fully admitted that I did nothing wrong and noting to deserve being cheated on. So tell me, what exactly did that woman have in justification? She knowingly hurt me (She was an acquaintence) and was out for her own selfish gain.
That’s what it comes down to. Women and men who cheat, or become “The Other [Wo]Man” are serving entirely themselves and care for no one else. And some people believe that they don’t have to. Which is rather unfortunate for the state of the world as a whole, not just in cheating.
Oh – and I would like to reiterate that no, not everyone does it or thinks about it. That’s just wishful thinking.
Mary,
My only point was that Lisa’s story of a lack of marital bliss does not give her an excuse nor even really explains why she plays the games she does with married men. It’s like someone telling me that since they were beaten in a relationship, it’s okay if they help someone else beat another undeserving partner.– Not that I haven’t run across that before, but only concerning persons who have endured severe psychological trauma and are in dire need of immediate treatment. Lisa, however, doesn’t seem to be one those unfortunate persons….but, I’m not her psychologist, so who knows.
Lady Tarrant-did you think I was bringing you a sob story or defending them because I felt sorry for them? Not at all. I was just trying to understand their reasoning. Call me crazy for that, I guess. You don’t sound harsh. Also call me crazy for actually believing in the vows more than some of the actual parties involved/who took those vows (not you, of course). Disgust is not compassion, Lady! Being a total outsider to marraige and affairs, I just have to try and understand with my experiences and own judgement. If there weren’t so many men willing to stray, I’d be a much happier woman in the dating world and a much more content woman in a relationship, looking towards a future with a man!
Oh, whatever.
I’m a divorced woman as well. At the end of my marriage my ex and I didn’t have sex at all. Was it because I was a fat, unattractive, lazy slob? At a size 2, I should think not. No, I didn’t want intimacy with my then husband, because he was someone I couldn’t respect, no longer felt attracted to, and had inflicted a lot of emotional wounds through being fairly mean spirited because he couldn’t get his way all of the time. I was attracted to other men. I was even tempted on one occasion. It was an incredibly difficult time and I craved emotional and physical intimacy, too. BUT, though I didn’t stay faithful to my husband, I DID stay faithful to my marriage and never cheated. I also got a divorce, even though it threw me into poverty, took away my ability to go to school for years, and damaged many areas of my life.
Thus, I don’t care for flimsy sob stories. I don’t feel moved, and I still don’t understand the convoluted logic behind Lisa and Lacey’s stand.
I don’t mean to sound harsh. On a purely intellectual level, I am genuinely interested in being able to understand their (Lisa and Lacey) point of view, even if I’m not apt to agree with them.
After thinking about this a bit more I don’t think you are right, Lady Tarrant-It’s not about boredom. Do you sense the passion in Lisa’s responses?? It almost sounds like she feels justified in doing what she has with married men, considering her past. I understand in that sense (although not with married men) what she is doing. And, like it or not, I don’t really care about “the children”; it always seems like the men who don’t get divorced and have affairs end up keeping their financial system intact better to support kids and have that extra to spend on themselves or another. It’s the integrity issue that bothers me, I guess. Beyond the “marraige/married man” factor, as I said, I can somewhat understand Lisa’s stance. As a means of getting what she wants (maybe even a strange sense of justice) she is quite proud of herself. That is my take. Do I feel Holier Than Thou?? No. Do I sound Holier Than Thou for my opinion and disgust?? I hope not because despite this morality issue, I’m the last person on Earth to be religious!