Sometimes a reader comment demands more than just a “thumbs down” or a two-sentence rebuttal. Sometimes it warrants its own full-length post. J Male’s recent response to “Why Women Have Ravishment and Rape Fantasies” was one such comment. Our reply is below his:
“Rape fantasies were a way [for women] to avoid taking blame for their sexual desires” — …there’s a simpler [explanation for why women have rape fantasies] established by natural common sense rather than research:
Males were created physically stronger than females. Males were created with greater sexual volition than females. The former is like the dominant rat while the later is like the attractive hole. Presuming they’re pieces of the life puzzle, how should they fit? Do the math… The fact is – during the earlier evolution of man, there was nothing like dating, introductions, ‘getting to know someone’ and so on. At that time human language was minimal while their senses were very strong. The strange male simply read the signs of heat on the strange female, ‘took’ her, then she would submit and naturally adapt to being with him while he made it a life duty to protect and care for her. It was that simple. Though thousands of years of evolution and civilization has eroded much of that reality from our societies, we still have those instincts “A man is an animal”…
Therefore, while I’m here having the same ravish fantasies to grope a woman, suck her breast and eventually fock her while enjoying / ignoring her subtle female resistance, a woman is out there hoping someone like me to do the exact same thing to her. So why are we not getting on with it? Why are we not exploring and enjoying these very natural desires? Read on…
1. The lack of volition by the female, as I mentioned; due to her inability to control / predict the outcome especially with the ‘perfect male stranger’. This is mostly caused by thoughts of the violent elements that have come to be associated with this, and / or her uncertainty that this experience could remain a secret.
2. “Political correctness” advocated by Feminists (lesbian butches and their wussy male supporters). They even have a legal term for it “rape” which scares everyone even more…
Luckily I found an online project that helps us all explore these desires. With so many thousands of members it lets us understand that this desire is not nearly as weird as people deem it to be. They’re absolutely natural and they can be explored secretly and safely. In fact, as instinctive as it is, every human should experience this at least once in a life time, because it helps with self-discovery and better understanding one’s sexuality. I hope this helps.
— J Male
Dear J.M.,
Nope, not helpful. Here’s why:
First, your jumping off point — the quote about the assumption that women had rape fantasies in order not to seem slutty for having their own sexual desires — represents an outdated theory that doesn’t apply to the modern woman. The new research found that the more likely a woman was to have fantasies about being ravished, the more likely she was not only to be confidently sex positive but also to have fantasies about ravishing a man. You can’t have your cake and eat it too: considering your “common sense,” if women have fantasies about being raped because they’re built by nature to be raped, then why would they have have fantasies about raping men if they’re not equipped to rape?
You’re using tired pop evolutionary psychology to justify criminal tendencies (and evo psych can be used, quite creatively, to explain or justify just about anything, e.g. Why do girls like pink? Because they were berry pickers! Never mind the fact that in the early 20th century pink was considered a boy color). Yes, let’s wax nostalgic for a time when early humans and their ancestors were significantly LESS intelligent, altruistic, cooperative, and empathic; when their “language” was feces-throwing and violence; when they often died prematurely literally from stupidity.
We humans have evolved quite quickly and drastically over hundreds of thousands of years, intellectually and socially, to understand that acting on every base urge is not ethical, moral, smart or even simply tenable. Just because you may have an impulse — and having it automatically allows it to be termed “natural” — doesn’t make it right. (And here, we can’t help but imagine you singing, a la George Michael, “Rape is natural, rape is good, not everybody does it, but everybody should!”)
Let’s replace rape here with murder — you may have urges to kill people who disagree with you or annoy you or threaten you in some way, but it would be ludicrous for you to say that these are all natural inclinations left over from our early hominid origins that should be encouraged and explored, because “natural.” “Hey, let’s hope everyone gets to experience the natural animalistic act of killing someone with their bare hands — which is their birthright — at least once in their lifetime!”
Calling all feminists “butch lesbians” — as if that’s an insult — shows that you have no understanding of the vast diversity in the feminist movement. There are plenty of straight feminist women who love to be spanked, have their hair pulled, and get consensually roughed up during sex. Not one of them wants to actually be raped. Feminist men are not wusses (again, with the poop-throwing!) — they are humans with balls (we’re guessing bigger than yours) who understand that Paleolithic mentalities have no place in 21st century relations, thanks to evolution.
Not wanting to be raped is not “political correctness”, it’s the reality of all women: we want bodily integrity, freedom from violence, and the right to have whatever sexual fantasies we desire. The emphasis here is on fantasy, a controlled imaginary experience in one’s head or else a negotiated role-play scene done consensually with agreed upon limits. It’s the opposite of real-life rape, which is unwanted, coerced, not pleasurable and often violent. And hey, if you want to fantasize about raping every woman you see, that’s your prerogative — but to so flagrantly blur the line between fantasy and reality and to suggest that you and other men should act on these fantasies is dangerous and irresponsible. It contributes to the rape culture that blames and shames victims, promotes myths like “there’s no such thing as marital rape,” and feeds the sexism that keeps domestic violence and sexual assault at epidemic proportions. It’s how you get six men all beating and gang-raping a 23-year-old intern to death.
If you want to negotiate a relationship with a willing participant who likes you to take charge and be dominant sexually, goodie for you — but don’t tell the rest of us that deep down we all want to be sexually assaulted against our will but just don’t realize it because wanting pay equity somehow clouds our judgment.
Not yours,
Em & Lo
P.S. We do, however, approve of the term “fock.”
A couple things that weren’t addressed, that may help others understand this:
1. Rape fantasies are considered “consentual unconsented” in the BDSM world, where sex is psychologically about power and control. Many high power individuals may embrace these fantasies as a way to deal with being in control in their career (high level management, and position that has power). This does not mean they actually want these fantasies to be reality.
2. Having rape oriented fantasies or acting them out in a CSS (Consentual, safe, and sane) environment doesn’t have to do with genetics because sex is psychologically about power and control. There are 2 parts of the brain that may be stimulated when we are sexually aroused:
(2A) the part of the reptilian brain which instinctively activates when we are faced with the unknown, this is what kept us alive so we could contribute through genetic evolution. When we are faced with the unknown we either fight it, flee from it, feast on it, or fuck it.
(2B) the empathetic centre of our brain which has been growing as our species evolve. Check out studies about the g allel gene, which state humans may be born with up to 2 sets of this gene (making you biologically more empathetic), but even those born without it may learn how to be empathetic through neural plasticity.
Regardless of what part of your brain is activated during arousal, your belief structures will depict your behaviour and attitude towards sex. Genetics set the scene, psychology directs how it plays. If someone is utilizing primal behaviour from a point of time when humans were socially unevolved, it shows how they are most likely stimulated by the reptilian brain and lack the proper tools or resources to educate themselves on how society functions, in order to create mentally healthy beliefs for this day and age.
(3) If you have complete disregard for yourself or are unable to “get off” without perpetuating a rape culture and put society at risk by triggering sexual predators who have been rehabilitated, you need to stop. You have an addiction. You most likely experience symptoms associated with cluster b personality disorders, specifically borderline personality disorder and secondary anti-social personality disorder. You most likely experienced severe childhood trauma which was not addressed. You most likely repressed the memories of said trauma, but carry the emotional baggage. Without dealing with the root of the problem you use your addiction as a way to “reward” your brain to finding a “happy” play. Any habit can be an addiction. Sex can definitely be an addiction. You are most likely addicted to high-risk sexual situations.
(4) As our species evolves genetically (think of the g allel gene, among other mutations we have witnessed) we also evolve socially. There are multiple aspects of life that are being addressed in a solution oriented perspective that seeks to support our peers, slowly but surely. It wasn’t that long ago that Caucasian folk owned slaves, women couldn’t vote or drive, and mental health consumers were given lobotomies as a form of therapy. We are always going to have people that are adversaries to evolution, but metaphysically speaking they truly voice their own inadequacies when they try to supress a group of people in order to “feel powerful or in control”. We know this because we know that humans are inherently selfish creatures; we generally only talk about what is important to us. What we can do is try to address situations with calm tits and a creative attitude. For example:
“J.Male, I can see where you’re coming from, but I know you’re understanding of what is fact may require a little re-education. Why don’t we invite some lady rugby players and sexual health experts to help us discuss this and figure out what the most logical answer would be?”
Stevebodsom,
I want to make it clear, there is always hope to heal. There are agencies that will be able to support you on your recovery journey if this applies to you. Please get help. Not for anyone else, but because you are worthy of it and it’s time to stop perpetuating a cycle of sexual violence in our community. You wouldn’t talk about this if it wasn’t important to you.
Much love and kisses,
Stella
Impressive response!
Actually you’re the one who’s jumping off point is wrong. And also the one using pop science to make your conclusions seem valid. You’re entire dosproval argument is paper thin. You say well if women are having rape fantasies because in nature rape is natural. Then the fact that they also have equal amounts of fantasies where they are raping men disproves that. Well that bizarre circular logic could maybe be true if women had those fantasies in the slightest. Which no amount of women anywhere on the planet have those fantasies. The number is even smaller if you us the word normal women.
There is no question that rape was common and natural up until the recent past. I agree it is evil and immoral. That being said, Some women like to get violently raped by strangers and deliberately place themselves in a position where it will likely happen. I am one of those women. You can call it a mental illness, a sickness or a compulsion. It is not something I want to do, it is something I have a compulsive need to do.
I get off on the danger. Many times I have barely escaped with my life. It is that excitement I crave. You can tell me to see a therapist until you are blue in the face. It will never happen. If I die, I die. Nor would I ever want any of the males who raped me to be prosecuted, because I suspect they too have a compulsion and do not have free will. Here is the way I see it.
If I can’t stop myself from putting my life in danger, and subjecting myself to all sorts of agony, physical abuse, bodily injury, emotional trauma, physical trauma, and humiliation, how can I expect them to control themselves when they suffer no harmful consequences so long as they don’t get caught. And in my case, I would never testify against them. I wouldn’t do it, if I didn’t get something deeply satisfying out of it. I know you won’t be able to stop yourself from judging me. I know you will insist I get help. I’ve been doing this for over twenty years. I no longer do it as often as I used to.
And now, I don’t the risks I used to take. Though I still seek out the residences of ex-cons who did time for rape and kidnapping, accidently bump into them in some public location, date them, flirt with them, tease them, sexually torment them, letting them know police no longer believe me when I claim I have been raped or assaulted, get them angry with me by stealing their money (accidently getting caught) then get so wasted they can do with me what they want. This is one example of many tactics I’ve used. Yes, I am pathological.
I am sure you won’t believe this either, but outside of sex, I am perfectly normal. I suspect the same is true of some male rapists. I assume I must have male counterparts. The reason I don’t seek them out is I need the thrill of my being really raped by a stranger. I need to know I can’t stop being raped no matter what I say or do. I get off on the terror of my not knowing whether I will live or die. I get off on the fear I have of not knowing how long I will be held, or what my rapist will do to me.
In actuality, after they free me, I become friends with most of them. And I become friends with their prison friends who have done their time if they have any. I usually consent to allowing them “rape” me again the way they did the first time. Of course, the second time it is not really rape and does not satisfy me the same way, the real rape did. Of course, the real “rape” was not real either as it was consensual from my point of view.
I normally post under a male name so I don’t get harassed and inundated with messages and replies. I created this email address and screen name just for this one time use.
I KNEW IT.
Not in a douchey, “that’s what women really want” sort of way. But I knew all along that there were women like you out there. You’re the first I’ve ever heard admit it. I belong to the probably .1 percent of the population who sees where you’re coming from with this. Yes, you’re right, most people will not get it. And those people are right, actually – your actions are truly nuts. But I get where the impulse comes from.
For some people too much isn’t enough. It’s a thrill-seeker thing. You start off with a first-time tandem sky-dive, and a year later you’re doing flips off skyscrapers with a BASE chute on and the cops at your heels. Some people need terror and danger to feel alive. For some people only the most extreme of thrills can scratch the itch. Most people can’t relate.
You know your limits. I’m not worried about you, even though you might get AIDS, because it sounds like you’ve made a clear-headed choice to take these risks. That’s your business.
But… ah… that brings us to your rapists. While their violent, antisocial crimes may be sexually exciting to you, most women would prefer to see those men on bars, and they’re right. You are creating and encouraging the sort of man who causes life-changing pain to other women. It may not be “real rape” from your point of view, but it will be from the next girl’s.
So that’s what I’m judging you for – not for being what most people would consider sick in the head, but for your complicity in what will be, for the next woman, a sickening crime.