Share your advice for this reader in the comments section below…
Dear Em & Lo,
I recently started dating a wonderful man. He’s smart, and interesting, and handsome and the sex has been delightful.
But not outstanding. But we’ve been working a fairly brisk learning curve and we can’t seem to get enough of each other anyway, and I’m stupidly happy in his arms so everything should be coming up roses, right?
Except for the GIANT black-leather-studded elephant in the room, which is his propensity towards BDSM. He hasn’t really trotted it out to me in a big way, but I know that I am decidedly NOT into whatever he’s into, eg: humiliation, manipulation, extreme bondage, violent spankings, etc. He’s brought it up a few times as something that he engages in as a significant part of his sexuality.
I’m definitely not that girl. I can’t imaging enjoying anything about it. I’m the type to be playful in bed, or silly, or just rut like an animal. But always as an equal to my partner. I don’t want to dominate OR be submissive as a defined and absolute role. Humiliation and manipulation, feeling powerless or at someone’s mercy…well, the thought of it frankly terrifies the hell out of me. And being scared does NOT turn me on. I might be the only woman in the world who doesn’t have a rape fantasy.
I suppose it bears mention that I have a history of manipulation and abuse in my childhood. So having gone through many years and many thousands of dollars of therapy, I’m loathe to have someone assert control over me all over again.
So…is this doomed? The more I think about how this is an integral part of his sexuality, the more upset I get and want to run away. We’ve been having pretty much vanilla sex, and it’s good. But it’s not great. Not for either of us. For me, I think, it’s because I’m perpetually wondering if he’s going to do something that makes me ill at ease, or put me in a position where I will feel scared or somehow terrorized. And I know that’s what he wants, and that by my unwillingness to engage in BDSM, I’m robbing him of his desires. I mean, hell, it’s the only porn he has.
Should I break up with him? I’m definitely not the girl who will satisfy this for him.
— Vanilla Girl
What should Vanilla Girl do? Share your suggestions in the comments section below.
You most definitely should or you will end up like me shedding tears on my pillow for years. If i had know his bdsm kink is serious, if i had educated myself more on the subject i wouldn’t have married him, have children just to suffer emotionally without the closeness of having normal sex. It’s not fair for either of us. Good luck.
I understand your bitterness at ending up with someone who is so sexually mismatched, but it seems unfair to refer to what you do in bed as “normal sex.” Who gets to decide what “normal” is? Some people think that simply using birth control makes sex dirty, because it separates the act from procreation. Even if you don’t want to get your kink on, there’s no need to call someone else abnormal. There’s no such thing in bed as “normal” — there’s simply what you like, and what somebody else likes.
I define normal sex as that which doesn’t require special equipment or a safe word. To me, having normal sex does indeed imply closeness and a connection with your partner, while kink implies a separation. Look at the entire bdsm role play and scripting of scenarios activity. The planning and ritual that goes into that seems anal and a bit obsessive-compulsive. With the focus on the script and the scenario how can you not lose sight of any natural feelings and desires as they arise? I’d find that very distracting. Em, you illustrate it best when you describe it as “what you like, and what somebody else likes.” LB was talking about a relationship, not which “technique” turned her on more.
Face it–kink focuses only on arousal and “getting off”, and relies on more and more technology to do that, like a drug addiction. It takes more and more technology, because of the void in the soul that the lack of emotion leaves behind. While “vanilla sex”, as kinks like to call it, is deeply satisfying to the emotions, as well as the libido. It’s like breastfeeding versus bottlefeeding. Completely portable, all natural, and you don’t need a diaper bag to carry extra equipment.
Others might beg to differ. I’m not a kink or BDSM kinda guy in the slightest, but just have to point out that the egocentrism in your thinking.
You find it to be too much planning. You find it distracting. You feel it focuses too much on the script and scenario, and loses site of “natural” (to you!) feelings and desires as they arise (within you). I feel pretty much exactly as you when it comes to my own needs… but I wouldn’t in a million years think that my own, personal needs and desires should be applied to the massive numbers of people out there who enjoy kink and BDSM.
Should we tell them all they’re doing it wrong–according to us, that is? I think they’d probably say that they’re not super interested in how you define “normal sex”, and that they’re doing just fine, thanks, without someone outside of their bedroom deciding on their behalf what’s “deeply satisfying.”
You really should refrain from speaking in an authoritative tone about that which you clearly know nothing about. The practice of BDSM *absolutely* requires trust, respect and connection with your partner. My sexual experiences on the kinkier side have been some of the most emotional, erotic and DEEPLY satisfying I’ve ever had.
It’s fine that you don’t think kinky sex is for you, but quit speaking about it as if you have any idea how it’s enjoyed by those who do. Carry on with your missionary.
Please be respectful.(: there’s no need to be defensive.
Why do you stay. You deserve too be with someone confident and comfortable with.
My life has been one of satisfying serial relationships that last 2-3 years then burn out. I actually like this because I get to feel fully loved and open up to someone’s life. 7 years ago I met a man that really did it for me physically and intellectually. However he introduced me to his BDSM desires and held them up as a higher standard than what I view as vivid sexual and deep personal connections. 4 years ago we married. Even before we married he started to come out as unsatisfied and lacked interest in satisfying me. I worked with him to share his drive towards incorporating BDSM into our lives. It did not work out as no matter what I tried he always seems to go “somewhere else” during the scenes and also with my “fun and lovingly playful” sex which truly rocks my world. As time passes we are drifting further apart. I feel threatened and physically abandoned by his sexual preferences, he dismisses my needs and yet feels guilty about it. OK, we are in our early 60’s and maybe should just suck up our losses and try for some peace in the relationship. He is getting bored with his life, I am emotionally disconnecting. I try to speak with him about this but he gets angry, defensive and even more secretive and distant. Its only a matter of time til I find a lover that fulfills my personal needs for that sexual playful connection. Cannot see that he wont do the same. wish he would just man up and agree to divorce. BDSM and non-BDSM people who marry suffer so much. Life is full of lessons, glad I am learning this one while I am still beautiful and vital. Wish I were not writing this but honesty and moving forward in life is essential to who I am. Thanks for all the sharing and obviously deep insights from both sides.
Thankyou so much to Sara & Nancy. I was going insane with grief due to my husband coming out as ‘a dom’ recently while I was working away from home (saving his ass). He never once in 12 years let on…but was so emotionally distant and cold that I thought it was me. I tried everything, took care of myself, perfect home worked full time you name it. I found your comments have saved me. I am feeling ‘normal’ and although ‘vanilla’ doesn’t define me by any means it is who I am. I can’t believe a few weeks ago that I would even know these terms! My husband wants to stay friends… He tells me about his sub …….on my return home only weeks after being told, his room is kitted out. I’ve said, I can love you as a friend an advisor because I love you but can’t accept women in my house! I can’t believe my life has come to this…my in-laws who I adore are devastated =they just think we ‘grew apart’ ohh I wish I could tell them.
Anyway, this page has helped me beyond words…I was toying with the idea of throwing my self at him acting sub forever…now realise thanks to nancy that I would feel abused and that I crave love and affection from with someone who I can trust. Thank you. A note for some in hiding. Don’t have your cake and eat it..tell as early as possible or you live a lie and waste anothers life…The pain is immense, my heart literally feels broken. Jen
I have stumbled on these comments and so glad I have. I married 10 years ago. I am the vanilla girl and he – on a slow drip drip if discovery is heavily into BDSM and kink – or is this the same thing? Who knows? It’s not my thing. We separated a year ago and stayed very much in touch and as we had been – except we were deluding ourselves. I loved him as my rock. He resented me for the sex he didn’t get. But he didn’t show his emotions but I showed him mine. It would seem that over 10 year he has increasingly been involved with the kink scene. He uncharitable blames this on me and the lack of sex…. ‘ you drive me to it’. I am a master of self delusion and so could ignore almost anything.
We are at a horrible point. I have to muster the last ebbs if self esteem I have on the floor whilst frantically trying to work out how I could be so lacking in what it takes to be happily married with a decent sex life. He on the other hand declares that he doesn’t want to be monogamous anymore and want to get back to how he was in his 20’s ( he is 58). He is off to London tomorrow for some munch/ meet up and more. I truly hate it – no I can’t be non judgemental or tolerant. These lies have wrecked 10 years of my life, and taken the chance for kids, my home and the future I was building. And all for sex. The hurt and pain is immense but tonight I know I need to write him out of my life forever.
It is so good to write this. -it is the first time I have described these feelings and I think I will start to do much more .
So what can I say for others? The deceptive and lies is like a cancer. Don’t tolerate it – get real – and get out. I wish I had many years earlier.
Tell your in-laws. Make him live his truth.
That’s right– punish that disgusting so and so– and steal all of his money too…You’ll show him!!!!!
god, enough already… you are being such an ass. Somebody somewhere hurt you or whatever and now you’re a raving misogynist. Get some therapy, already, ya poor, pathetic schlub.
Oklahoma has a law and that was way before marriage equality for same sex marriages
are, for the way it’s supposed to do the Christian thing and repeal these consensual sex laws and our minds.
As if puberty isn’t rough enough, back in good ‘ol NC, it
is considered to have sex on Sunday, Wednesday
and Friday the holy trinity of the Napoleonic wars.
New measures against child prostitution are also expected on rape laws, anyone
found guilty of being legislated, but.
Im so glad I came across this web page. My wife and I are going through exactly the same issues.
We have two children so there is no way we are splitting and so we have to make the best of it together.
I can only echo the stories of those here.
I am a very sexually active dominant man, who loves his wife fiercely. However, she is into just vannila sex and this just doesnt do it for me.
We have been round the houses and we are both totally happy we who we are. But we both want totally different things from sex. There is no common ground. We both feel rejected emotionaly but know with our minds the other loves us dearly.
It is really hard not to let resentment leak out to the rest of the relationship. Sometimes i am so frustrated I feel like I hate her, but I dont really
We have crappy sex about 4 times a year.
I have no choice but to find it elsewhere which is actually unsatisfying and as a result makes you feel bad and even more resentful. I want a loving warm relationship through bdsm and she doesnt.
We will continue in this mediocre state of affairs for the sake of the boys and because we both love each other in every other apsect.
If you can get out without aftermath of children then anyone reading this, then do. Dont let it go on and get trapped. Sometimes it feels like your whole life is wasted.
Omg i feel you here, my last relationship didnt went great at all. Me and my boyfriend were quite the opposte he just wanted normal dull sex while i wanted it to be kinky and i was way hornier than him. 🙂
Contact information can also be provided for parents with questions or concerns regarding a policy.
If you just want to hop into a season with your favorite football club and their correct rosters, then that’s what season mode is for.
Weblogs or blogs as they are known are here to stay.
Powerfully Defenceless:
You have a lot of courage to come here. It is obvious you are hurting.
Remember that strength comes from knowing who you are. It is terrifying to think of leaving someone you have been with for so long… But only you know if you should stay or go.
I have interests in kink- but many of your responses above have made me ponder a lot. No one teaches you that people change and when you marry- that person may change too. It is scary to think of leaving the one you are with because you may never find the one that matches you sexually, mentally, and relationship wise.
It’s a tough world out there.
Remember that love starts with yourself.
I was reading these posts and had to drop in. I’m kind of sad and broken feeling right now. I have a wife who is a beautiful lady and best friend. Not the cliché my girls my friend but seriously the one person in the world I can decompress with. I’m away from home a lot due to work but she’s my world. That all said I have been spending all night researching divorce and psychology of dysfunctional relationship sites. We’ve been together 6 years and honestly we always had sexual incompatibility problems but she is such a baddass that I stuck with it and compromised. I have had a lot of power play in my past as well as “vanilla” though I hate that term. It’s all so beautiful saying its one flavor or that really does it injustice like saying it’s a flower or tree. There are so many varieties.
I don’t need power play all the time nor do I want it. I think there’s a time and a place. I don’t want to beat my wife or have her do what I say. I’d say 90% of the time in day to day life I just defer to her judgment on things cus I love seeing her smile the other 10 I instantly get my way cus she appreciates me giving her the rains most of the time. We don’t have kids though we’ve tried. Stress for another day. Due to trying we have a ton of sex. She’ll try almost anything I want… here’s the rub.
When we started I was clear on my past. I use to be a man whore. Not literally. Didn’t get paid but I had low esteem and low standards. I was abused as a child. Not sexually just choked out bottles broken on my head tossed down stairs. You know the usual… sorry bad joke. I inappropriately joke a lot, wife does to… We like it… anyway. I was abused like that but I suppose some can’t laugh about it after.
I was crazy as a teen-early 20’s drink fight and fuck every night. My first few apartments looked like Swiss cheese from all the holes. I’ve never hit a woman though I have remodeled a couple walls next to them under extreme provocation. I met a Dom in my early 20’s and that was my first adventure into the world of kink. She was kind and cruel. Heartless and all encompassingly caring. Readers digest she, over time, broke me down to the point I snapped and regressed to that scared little kid in a corner with the 300 lb gorilla cracking his bones over and over. But shed bring me back. And did that over and over. One day I didn’t cry. Another I didn’t scream. Another I didn’t flinch and magically I lost my fear. I have not once even had to fight back rage since then. See my rage was really fear of being powerless. I thought power was either given or taken with no in-between. Now I know true power is restraint courage and conviction. The man who takes 5 to the gut but still defends his family and friends ignoring the pain, not the shooter. My dad had no power, just fear dumped onto a little defenseless child and his mother. My Dom gave me this gift and set me free.
I went back to vanill…. No I’ll just call um strait relationships. Like strait or kinked not the other way… stupid words have too many pointless meanings…. Anyway… relationships life rinse repeat, found a girl broken and scared. Fast forward my relationship with my Dom roles switched she was fixed set her free. I’m still friends with my Dom and sub by the way. Were all doing awesome in life kicking ass and taking money =b confidence and a lack of fear is awesome. So all that said I wouldn’t have married any of them. We just weren’t compatible in other ways. So back to the now.
My wife has been with 3 other people and has an amazing family. At first she would try anything but isn’t into kink at all. In fact she loves sex but only quickies. Takes her maybe five min tops to get off then she’s done. She’ll let me finish but it’s all me at that point. I have skill let me tell you… and I’m not lying and to prove it, not hung. No issues with it. Can make any girl squirt with 2 fingers and my voice, bam! But one she’s done. She can have more but they hurt her 3 or 4 and she’s hating life. She just seizes up to hard when it happens. Me I’m an all-night man. Quickies are fun but I love foreplay. She is getting better but honestly doesn’t see the point. Her hitting on me is turning and saying we should fuck. All the romance is for me to. She doesn’t get it but trys? Ish? I like dirty talk, ya, fuck my daddy pump that hot cum in mama. She trys that to but basically I need to tell her what to say most of the time and she always feels and sounds awkward.
The biggest thing, the bdsm thing. We use to try. Couple times she started crying. I’d stop but she’d say keep goin, get what you need. Sometimes I was like fuck this, not out loud, and tried to cool her down. She was broken for days thinking she failed. Couple times I was like ok I got this and pushed her through it. No dice either. She basically said you’re an asshole and locked herself in the bathroom to cry… I don’t like feeling like I actually raped my wife. I domdroped hard a lot when we had sessions. I eventually stopped trying. I want her to smile. She doesn’t like blowjobs, or even me going down on her. All she wants is missionary or doggy quickies constantly. 2x a day on average. Sometimes more sometimes less.
We fought a lot at first which for us is calmly talking, we don’t yell. And almost split but settled on me going slow and her having time to grow into it but she just instantly gives up and makes me feel it’s hurting her. Well that’s supposed to happen but not that way, a bad way. This made me stop trying to push her and stop trying. But we stayed cus were as close to sole mates as I’ve ever even met in a female anywhere. The best friend ever out of everyone. But 6 years later our sex is stagnant. I have trouble keeping it up sometimes and mostly just get her off then just tell her I’m tired and we stop. Its starting to distance us. I don’t even know how to talk about it anymore cus we have over and over and she always just says sorry I’ll try harder and nothing happiness…. I don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t see it as evil or an addiction. It saved my life and I have friends that have entire play rooms dedicated to role play that have wonderful kids and happy compromising lives. To me it’s a physical statement of love saying I want to control every aspect of you you beautiful person as you cry and cum in my arms. Or I want to give myself to you cus you are the one I chose to control my everything.
O btw I’m a switch. She’s not dominant either and thinks its awkward. We talk about everything but I just don’t know what to do anymore. I don’t think I can meet anyone like her again… but I know on this road I might eventually cheat and I hate cheaters. Or I’ll just continue to die inside. Which I feel like I’m doing. Shriveling into slow isolation cus I can’t express myself the way I need to to the only person I care to express myself to.
I don’t know what advice I’m asking for by putting this out into the aether. I just can’t lose her but I can’t stay this course and talking about everything works for everything except this even on pain of separation. She just makes me think she’ll try then does but doesn’t cus her hearts not in it. No matter how much she wants it to be.
I can walk from anything but I can’t walk from her… or myself…
What a self absorbed narcissist you are. Life is so much more nuanced and interesting then getting your fantasies met. Try to do something for others that does not involve sex and it might make you understand what I mean. Good Luck!
That is probably the most insensitive reply I think I have ever read. truly. Congratulations on turning this into a shaming session as opposed to a place of healing.
Vixen-
I am so sorry for what you and your daughter are going through. I wanted to wish you strength, peace, blessings, and light.
My spouse of 15 years has just told me that he has been cheating on me for years and doesn’t love any of the other women, still loves me, but wants an open marriage. For a few years, his bedroom fantasies have been kinky, and he said he wanted to ‘share me.’ I agreed to these fantasies only in the bedroom. I thought that is what his desires were, just fantasies. They didn’t do it for me, but I desired to be intimate with him, so I entertained them. He has a high stress career and is always told what to do, so I figured he needed a little Dom control to cope. We never had a conversation about his desires. Or mine, which I guess are vanilla. Although I do think had he communicated with me, he might have seen I have some vixen in me, too. So he went outside of our marriage to act out his fantasies, yet, he still doesn’t seem happy. He recently met a married woman on Ashley Madison.com and had a couple of “angry sex” encounters. Her husband found out and informed me. It is a mess. Now we are separating. I hope he will agree to counseling. He said he did not feel this way until 8 years into our marriage when our daughter was about to be born. I wonder why he didn’t just talk to me about his feelings or ask for a divorce then? I would have been crushed, but now 7 years later am just beyond words devastated. I haven’t worked in a year because we moved due to his job and I haven’t found one. So, now I have to move away from him to another state and find a job and with our daughter live in my Mom’s spare room until I can get on my feet while he gets his act together and hopefully finishes up his assignment do he can join us in a year or two. Which means no counseling for all that time. I have stuck by him, and I thought we were friends, as well. Now I have lost my husband and my friend. I am wondering if all of this behavior change could be PTSD, sex addiction, fear of retirement, mid-life crisis, and alcoholism. He said he was sorry that he hurt me with the affairs, but was not sorry he had the affairs. He did finally admit to being an alcoholic. Maybe this whole experience of being discovered by the lover’s husband and telling me will at least get my husband into alcohol treatment. I can’t imagine him having visitation with our daughter during our separation while he is in this state of mind. All he is thinking about is himself. And to think that I have laid awake at night wanting him and he claimed he was too tired. And our little girl wanted to spend time with him and he was too tired. Yet, he had alter-ego. He has always been the most level-headed, soft spoken man. None of this makes sense. I want to help him, but I feel so betrayed and unattractive.
I am a submissive. Always have been. Much like my cousin knew he was gay as a young child, I knew I wanted something different then what I saw in the ‘real’ world.
I find release when I give up control. I find peace when I’m doing a scene and I’m being humiliated or gagging on a cock. I don’t know why. But I do know there is nothing wrong with me.
I graduated summa cum laude. I have several degrees. I come from a nice family with no abuse. I explain it to my vanilla friends that they may find dark haired guys attractive. Or tattoos. Or business suits. Or whatever. But I find submissiveness attractive.
Most of the dominants I know ARE ‘real men’ and sometimes struggle with their need to humiliate, control, or give pain to their submissive even though she wants it because society tells them it’s wrong. Look up Dom drop. It’s real and can be scary for them.
I am currently in a relationship with a pretty vanilla guy. I had to sit him down and explain what I needed and if he couldn’t give it to me every once in a while we were not going to make it. So he’ll tie me up once a year, spank me when I need it, and he even once told me to ‘taste it’ when he put himself in my mouth. I adore him for it.
I told him he doesn’t have to like my kinks. He can say no to anything he finds too extreme. But he can NEVER make me feel like I am disgusting or that something is wrong with me because my needs are different from his. I can never feel scared to ask him for something.
He’s trying but he still slips up. I’m willing to compromise with his vanilla but he must be able to compromise with my mint. He doesn’t have to like it but he has to do it sometimes. I don’t like driving him to the airport during rush hour but I do it every month. He can spank me and tell me why every few months too.
Wonderful lady…
I do have to agree with the possibility of sexual addiction in many of the above situations. I know the concept of sexual addiction can be debated and many professionals have not reached an agreement on this topic. I myself do not buy into the “highly sexual” description many people use to define their sex drives. My husband uses this term a lot–he has a high sex drive–not an addiction. Except that his “high sex drive” has enticed him to “hook-up” with married women on Ashley Madison (Yucky Yucky women on that site–talk about SKANKY), view pornography almost daily, visit adult video stores frequently, and pressure me constantly about BDSM–as he says “just light bondage with ropes, blindfolds, collar and dog leash” and ” we’ll see where it goes”. I have so much resentment about his infidelity that I have no interest in being a sub. He has been seeing a counselor at my insistence, and I understand the counselor has been trying to convince him he has an addiction to sex, so he found a counselor who has told him what he wants to hear–that he is not addicted to sex, but his sexual energy is “out of control” Whatever, it’s all semantics to me. The point is his behavior has ruined our intimacy, has probably broken up our marriage, and caused an immense amount of pain between the two of us. He says that BDSM is “advanced sex”–I say that is not true. He wants to restore the power in our relationship by tying me up in the the bedroom–because he doesn’t feel he has it anywhere else in his life. No thanks. I told him that I feel like “Real men don’t need to tie women up” men that are comfortable, confident and capable and don’t need to intentionally dominate another person. That is what turns me on. My husband was “hooking up” with married women from the Ashley Madison website (take a peek, there are some very SKANKY women on that website). Of course these people are looking to “get out of a situation” or take care of their own sexual addiction issues. As I have said, a REAL MAN doesn’t have to “do it” with someone else’s spouse and/or tie up some vulnerable person who had sunk so low as to advertise herself on a cheaters website. It has given me a very bad impression of BDSM. It’s not happening with this chick. Not with this guy…
“I have so much resentment about his infidelity that I have no interest in being a sub” Here’s a newsflash: Why do you think it **might** have happened?
Money, sex & kids are the 3 make-or-break things in every relationship. A spender will have a hard time being with a saver. Two dominants or two submissives will have a hard time getting along in the bedroom. A breeder with a non-breeder usually won’t work out. And … a vanilla will have a hard time being with a bdsm’er.
If you are not happy in all 3 of those major cateogries (money, sex, kids/ parenting style) then there will be major clashes and it won’t last.
It’s better to break it off early, amicably.
Find someone else you click with on those 3 things. Everything else you get along on is just icing on the cake.
I’m going through the same thing with my guy. He’s the nicest most sweetest attentive guy. We get along great and share so many interests. We’ve been together for 4 months and have not really had sex yet :/ I think he’s afraid of scaring me away. What little I’ve experienced with him choking me has been scary. I don’t think he’s even capable of having vanilla sex anymore he’s been living that lifestyle for so long. He’s highly sexual, so I strongly suspect he has been finding it elsewhere already :/ Eventhough I he’s very sexually attracted to me, he can’t seem to have actual sex with me.
I did a Google search to see how others are handling it. I think as much as we like each other we are going to have to split up.